What do you use for a personal anchor?

God.

I never posted this as a "preferred method." If you tied in at your end, and set your rap at the mid point, then you should have enough rope on the anchor to put yourself on rap, then release your mp tie in, as well as your tie in knot.(I would figure that in your vast experience you'd be able to visualse this.)
As I stated above, it's not impossible, but also not efficent.
Be well,
-Mackley

Sport Boy (Photo by Peacock)

I am unclear. Is the sun hat part of the PAS or the anchor? Do I need 2 so there's redundancy?

David Finger wrote:What are the knots used on the 8mm rope anchor shown above?

To answer David's question (which what resurrected this thread) - It's a figure 8 at the harness, and a double fishermans at the caribiner. The double fisherman's is tied in a kind of unconventional way though - you tie the first barrel with nothing thru the center, form the bight and push it back thru the center of the barrel, then tie the other barrel, and pull the loop tight.

Robbie Mackley wrote:I never posted this as a "preferred method." If you tied in at your end, and set your rap at the mid point, then you should have enough rope on the anchor to put yourself on rap, then release your mp tie in, as well as your tie in knot.(I would figure that in your vast experience you'd be able to visualse this.) As I stated above, it's not impossible, but also not efficent. Be well, -Mackley

I can visualize all sorts of stupid shit. I try not to contribute to the stupidity by suggesting that those things are "perfectly safe/fine".

"Not at all efficient" is an understatement.

Ben Beckerich wrote: tying into the rope is all fine and well, but you're not always tied into the rope- you still need to have a personal anchor.

If I'm cleaning an anchor, I usually just attach the anchor to me. The rope usually runs through two carabiners, so I clip them to my belay loop one at a time, thread the rope, set up rappel, clean the anchor.

Just free solo everything. You don't need to worry about anchors that way.

Csproul, you asked how it could be done, and I politely answered. Try to not to get angry/rude because you're wrong. As I stated before, not a preferred method, not at all efficent, but also not at all unsafe.
To answer the OP in a more direct manner, I usually just use whatever I have on hand. Cow tails if the anchor I'm cleaning is two draws, or clipping directly to whatever type of anchor I'm cleaning usually works.
-Mackley

Jordan Ramey wrote:http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2132231 purcell prusik tied with 6mm cord b/c: 1: it's adjustable, but without buckles 2: it's not dyneema or super skinny (i.e. it wears well) 3: I have cord to leave if I need to (v-threads, replace sling stations, etc...) 4: it's awesome 5: it's pretty fool proof edit: i'm also lazy, google it and you'll find a wealth of information on why it's better and cheaper than most alternatives.

+1 for purcell prusiks! Probably the most versatile piece of gear I own.

1. Personal Anchor
2. Abseil Extension
2. Ascension Prusik
3. Releasable Prusik for rock rescue
3. Crevasse Rescue.
4. I am sure there are more...

I still don't see why the hate on PAS. Its strong, Adjustable, each loop is rated to 22kn. I always use it. Weather I am securing my self when getting ready to rap, or hanging off bolts, sport or trad. Everyone always says use a sling with a biner...but PAS is adjustable and sling is not (unless you tie a knot). I use a PAS and tie in with rope or extend a trad draw as second backup. Quick and secure.

Readng through the earlier replies a lot of people tie in with the rope to the anchor using a clove hitch. A quick search didn't find a thread on that earlier. I know plenty of guides teach that.
Interesting that John Long in one of his how to books (the first one?) says never use the sole tie in to the anchor as a clove hitch. A friend of his went for a ride that way or something like that.

Any earlier threads on that?

I think if you tie a clove hitch and load it and keep it loaded, its safe. Once you introduce slack and load it and slack again and load (think setting up toprope anchor with static rope and use clove hitch on of the legs for adjustability) it may potentially twist become undone (maybe on a new rope that hasn't been broken in yet) in that case I tie a figure eight as backup and clip into same biner that I clove hitched the rope too.

So my point is if you clove hitch your rope to a biner/anchor as your sole point of backup, as long as you keep it loaded (think hanging belay) you'll be ok. Then add a second point of redundancy (PAS or a draw)

Has anyone else realized this is a 3 year old thread that was resurrected by someone who asked a simple question about what knot was shown in a picture on the 1st page?

Don't knock the redundant sun hat!

Roman G wrote:...clove hitch...Once you introduce slack and load it and slack again and load (think setting up toprope anchor with static rope and use clove hitch on of the legs for adjustability) it may potentially twist become undone (maybe on a new rope that hasn't been broken in yet)

wtf? No. Just...no.

Everything old is new again.
I've asked this before but why, if I am climbing with 200 feet of single rope as my only attachment for a pitch, do I need to make that redundant at the anchor with only 10 inches out.

Answer, you don't.

Also disregard everything roman g has written.

Fair enough, I just posted what I see with static rope. I use pmi static and I can tell you because it's so burly and slick even after I load the clove hitch, it is prone to moving around. Maybe not becoming undone as I stated earlier but it won't stayed cinched on thick static line.

Jon H wrote:TROLL ALERT. Just tie in with the rope. People who use quickdraws are flat out idiots. People who use daisy chains should known better.

For years I have been climbing. And for years I hear the argument of "just tie in with the rope". But to this day, and I feel I am well versed in the mechanical aspect of the sport, I cannot figure out how to "just tie in with the rope" and have zero need for any other gear.

My personal preference is to tie in with the rope on a multi pitch where I have a stance. Build my anchor, throw a clove on a biner and clip it to the master point. Safe, efficient, and easy to adjust, best way to go and it is always my first choice. However, when I am on a hanging belay or on a single pitch climb where I am cleaning the anchor this method does not seem to be efficient, sure you can make it work, but there are easier ways to go about it. At an anchor I will have a long piece of webbing, a daisy, a PAS, etc... girth hitch this to my harness and clip it straight to the bolt. Clean the anchor, run the rope through the rings and rap. Hanging belay, run my PAS from my harness straight to the master point, this way when my partner who was following me passes the belay and is ready to pull me up I just wait for him to put me on belay then I break down my anchor system and start moving. In the multi pitch scenario this takes away from the ever dreaded belay partner who in their own fear takes up so much slack that the whole anchor system becomes so tight that you cannot untie or get any of the pieces out. Also, if it is a truly difficult route, the slack is already taken up on the rope which is tied directly into you, you can weight the rope while you break down the anchor if you need to.

If someone knows a way to use the rope and the rope only during these situations and it is quicker and easier than a PAS or sling please let me know. I am all about making anchors as painless as possible. Because lets be honest, no one goes out for a day of climbing hoping to have a cluster f*** at ever anchor.

The Flying Dutchman wrote: For years I have been climbing. And for years I hear the argument of "just tie in with the rope". But to this day, and I feel I am well versed in the mechanical aspect of the sport, I cannot figure out how to "just tie in with the rope" and have zero need for any other gear. My personal preference is to tie in with the rope on a multi pitch where I have a stance. Build my anchor, throw a clove on a biner and clip it to the master point. Safe, efficient, and easy to adjust, best way to go and it is always my first choice. However, when I am on a hanging belay or on a single pitch climb where I am cleaning the anchor this method does not seem to be efficient, sure you can make it work, but there are easier ways to go about it. At an anchor I will have a long piece of webbing, a daisy, a PAS, etc... girth hitch this to my harness and clip it straight to the bolt. Clean the anchor, run the rope through the rings and rap. Hanging belay, run my PAS from my harness straight to the master point, this way when my partner who was following me passes the belay and is ready to pull me up I just wait for him to put me on belay then I break down my anchor system and start moving. In the multi pitch scenario this takes away from the ever dreaded belay partner who in their own fear takes up so much slack that the whole anchor system becomes so tight that you cannot untie or get any of the pieces out. Also, if it is a truly difficult route, the slack is already taken up on the rope which is tied directly into you, you can weight the rope while you break down the anchor if you need to. If someone knows a way to use the rope and the rope only during these situations and it is quicker and easier than a PAS or sling please let me know. I am all about making anchors as painless as possible. Because lets be honest, no one goes out for a day of climbing hoping to have a cluster f*** at ever anchor.

if you are cleaning then you should have plenty of gear to clip yourself in with no? Years and years go buy and I wonder why people buy special gear for clipping into an anchor.

Metolius PAS. Daisy Chains aren't strong enough for most any kind of use with an anchor for non-aid climbing. By the way, great question by the OP and kudos for seeking good advice.