Gunks with Two 70's?

Does anyone know if two 70m ropes will get you from the top to the ground pretty much anywhere in the Trapps? I know there are a good number of places where two 60's will work, but not everywhere, I don't think.

I know alot of the climbs have 3 pitches, but each is not 100 ft. 220 to 250 total is typical I think. Then you have no real fixed anchors, so have to wander back more to find something solid if you plan to rap back down route and not walk off from the top. I'd thinka couple of 80M ropes would be needed for alot of routes, but then again I haven't climbed more than 20 or so at Trapps, and don't live there, and don't know the latest upgrades to routes.

I know two 60's will get down a bunch of them, including High E, Ursula, Madame G's... One that stands out to me is the rap on No Glow - it might be too long. A single 60 just makes the GT, and definitely does not reach the ground if you rap right from that spot, I think 2 70's would come up short there from the top. But with the tree's on the GT around that climb, it's probably not a good idea to rap to the ground in one shot anyway.

Larry S wrote:... it's probably not a good idea to rap to the ground in one shot anyway.

^^^ This.

Too many opportunities to interfere with other climbers and/or get your rope tangled.

Kevin Heckeler wrote: ^^^ This. Too many opportunities to interfere with other climbers and/or get your rope tangled.

Hmm, well, I've done a whole lot of 60m raps in the Gunks without trouble, although you guys are definitely right that a full-length rap isn't the right fit for every situation and being smart about that is good advice. Other climbers are not such a problem for me, as I essentially never climb on weekends in the Gunks (can't imagine why!).

But my actual QUESTION was...do the 70's reach the ground in most places? Anyone out there tried it?

You have to be careful to distinguish the true top of the Trapps from the "top" of climbs that typically end at the GT Ledge level. Some of the climbs mentioned above like Madame G's and Ursula actually are not finished at the top of the cliff-- people rap from the GT Ledge level. Bonnie's is the same way.

From the GT Ledge a 60 M rap (i.e. using two 60 meter ropes tied together) will get you down pretty much everywhere. There may be an exception but if there is I don't know of it. On the other hand, if you are rapping from the true top of the cliff (as on No Glow) then two 60 meter ropes won't get you down in one rap and I doubt a two 70 meter rope rap will get you down either.

So my answer is no, I haven't tried it, but I think the times you can save a rap by using 70 meter doubles vs. 60s are few and far between. And I agree that rapping the entire cliff in one go may be asking for hung-up ropes and disgruntled leaders on the first pitches of popular climbs. Finally, the idea of lugging two 70 meter ropes around just to save one rap seems crazy to me.

Edited to add: by the way I've climbed with double 60s a bunch and I like rapping in one go from the GT Ledge. But often from the GT Ledge you can see/hear people below. This is definitely not the case most of the time from the very top of the cliff.

SethG wrote:So my answer is no, I haven't tried it, but I think the times you can save a rap by using 70 meter doubles vs. 60s are few and far between. And I agree that rapping the entire cliff in one go may be asking for hung-up ropes and disgruntled leaders on the first pitches of popular climbs. Finally, the idea of lugging two 70 meter ropes around just to save one rap seems crazy to me.

This pretty much sums it up.

You're asking a theoretical question, but looking for a practical answer?

To answer your question, someone would need to have tried and failed to reach the ground with 2 70 meter ropes. To answer definitively, one would need to have tried every potential spot until they failed.

However, as has been pointed out, trying to do such a rap isn't always the best option, so this would require someone to specifically try something not in their best interest (from a climbing efficiency point of view) in order to advance the cause of knowledge. This would also include rapping from all kinds of obscurities. Thus, it's likely to be theoretical.

How about this: yes, there are places where, if you rap in exactly the wrong place, and use a tree anchor far enough back from the cliff, 2 70 meter ropes won't get you down in one go. Have I tried doing this? No. But there's almost always a nearby solution.

An example: I think if you tried to rap down Rock and Brew, you probably wouldn't make it. But the Rusty Trifle/Bloody Bush corner is nearby and you could probably make that.

Another example: if you tried to rappel to the base of Turdland from the top of the cliff, that might be too far, though you might make the Cakewalk start. But who climbs above the GT ledge from Turdland? Few enough people even get to the GT Ledge...

But if you're looking to get yourself into trouble, here are a few places I'd recommend experimenting with failure...some may work, some may not. Let us know!

- Grim-Ace Face area
- Peregrine
- Middle Earth area
- the No Glow area
- the Slime Wall

SethG wrote:You have to be careful to distinguish the true top of the Trapps from the "top" of climbs that typically end at the GT Ledge level. Some of the climbs mentioned above like Madame G's and Ursula actually are not finished at the top of the cliff-- people rap from the GT Ledge level. Bonnie's is the same way. From the GT Ledge a 60 M rap (i.e. using two 60 meter ropes tied together) will get you down pretty much everywhere. There may be an exception but if there is I don't know of it. On the other hand, if you are rapping from the true top of the cliff (as on No Glow) then two 60 meter ropes won't get you down in one rap and I doubt a two 70 meter rope rap will get you down either. So my answer is no, I haven't tried it, but I think the times you can save a rap by using 70 meter doubles vs. 60s are few and far between. And I agree that rapping the entire cliff in one go may be asking for hung-up ropes and disgruntled leaders on the first pitches of popular climbs. Finally, the idea of lugging two 70 meter ropes around just to save one rap seems crazy to me. Edited to add: by the way I've climbed with double 60s a bunch and I like rapping in one go from the GT Ledge. But often from the GT Ledge you can see/hear people below. This is definitely not the case most of the time from the very top of the cliff.

Thanks Seth, that "single to the GT, double from the GT" formula rings true...I used to climb with double 60's out there pretty frequently, but have only used a single for several years and so had kind of gotten used to that rhythm.