Starting a Trad Rack

LCC-Climber wrote:I doubt the kid asking about a starting trad rack will be leading .11+ gear routes with tricky placements.

You never know. Everyone was that kid at some point. Progression in climbing happens faster than gear wears out. This kid could be climbing 5.12 or harder, on gear, 5 years from now, and he'll still have the gear that he buys next month. On this topic, I'll jump into the spray-zone for a second: the first 5.13 I ever did was on gear, and when I did it several of the items on the redpoint rack were the very first TCUs that I had purchased years prior, as a 15-year old in Maryland, noobing my way up 5.7 at Seneca.

Moral of the story: buy gear (hard-goods) for the long run. Soft goods like shoes and ropes you can go cheap on now, sine you'll wear those out in a year or two anyway, and then you can upgrade. But things like cams last, essentially, forever (just replace those slings!). Buy gear with what you'll need as a 5.7 noob in mind, but also for what you'll want down the road. Don't buy things (like hexes) that you'll quickly outgrow once you start leading harder routes. Buy high quality cams that you'll still be happy with in 10 years...since you'll likely still be using them (I am).

As to the tricam debate: This has really blown out of proportion. Tri cams are potentially useful at the Gunks. If you plan to climb a lot there, buy a pink and maybe a red to start, but no more. Play with them and see what you think. If you don't like them, you can sell them or use them as a Christmas ornament. If you are climbing mostly at other places, such as at granite crags in NH, tri cams are much less useful, so don't bother.

I would double up stoppers with DMM alloy offsets before I would buy tricams. Man, I love those things.

Well, I sure hope that, after 3 pages, the OP finally got his answer.

Oh, wait. He did that on back page 1. The rest of this thread has been a clone of rc.com

Mark Paulson wrote:I would double up stoppers with DMM alloy offsets before I would buy tricams. Man, I love those things.

+1 to that, brother.

Those DMM alloy offsets will slot almost anywhere. Supplement a set of nuts with those and you'll hardly need cams at all in the fingers/small hands size. . .

If I were to start over and re-build my rack, I'd go with Metolius Mastercams and UL TCU's for the small gear (up to the Orange Mastercam size #3) instead of C3s and C4s. Then, all C4s from the .5 size and up.

I have no scientific backing, but I've just never really trusted C3s. UL TCUs are lighter and less bulk on your rack. And the Master cams from #00 to #3 will place in smaller spaces than C4s will. I also love the slightly stiffer, yet silky-smooth trigger action of the MCs.

I have no beef with tri cams. I just have a beef with the myth associeted with tricams. I even carry two of them on my rack. They were free:) I probobly would not spend $$ on tri cams for the simple reason that it is not a good deal if you don't need it. Whenever the subject of trad racks comes up there are always a few folks chimeing in that one can not possibly survive the trad leading experience without a full rack of tri cams. That is simply not true. If they fold on that one they come up with the old standby that there are some routs that only protect with tricams. Again it's not true. These are old drunken stoned hippy tales as opposed to Old wifes tales. 99% of those routes protect just fine with modern cams. Heck we are not even talking micro cams. Orange TCU or 4CU is a pretty good sized beefy unit and the same size as the fabled Pink tricam.
I have partners who climb rock much stronger than myself. some of them climb all over the globe and I have never seen a tricam om their racks. Isa is My#1 partner for the last 16years and a stronger rock climber than myself. She always climbs on my rack which includes the red and pink tri cams. In 16 years I don't think she has placed either of them more than 2 or possibly 3 times..

Tricams. if you like them fine. have fun but please do not tell me that they are essential equiptment. they are not. If you are starting a new rack INMOP you money is better spent on a single BD or Metulios camming unit than the 3 tricams that same money would buy.

I will say that if I had to choose between tri cams and Hexes, tri cams win all day long.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:I will say that if I had to choose between tri cams and Hexes, tri cams win all day long.

But what about all those placements where a cam won't work but a hex will?

ESSENTIAL

I can actually think of one climb where a Hex works better than a cam. it was on some obscure wide FA that I had previously rapped for a trundle so I knew to bring the hex :)

i like that people not from new england are telling a gunks climber tri cams are useless.

superkick wrote:i like that people not from new england are telling a gunks climber tri cams are useless.

Note: remember that climbers tend to be a very mobile bunch. Just because the location given on a user's profile says California, Utah, or Colorado, does not mean that they are not born-and-raised (former) residents of the Northeast. You can't say "You aren't from here, so you don't know what you're talking about" based on a Mountainproject profile alone.

Newb Gunks climber here,

Here is what I've placed on almost every climb I've done.
.3 X4, .4 X4 (green and yellow aliens?)
-smaller/medium sized stoppers
-.5 and .75 C4
-I do place pink a lot, BUT I don't have doubles in cams yet.

I placed my red tri-cam twice in 50 days out last season. (both times on the same climb)

I used my brown tricam once to build an anchor. (I was backing up a tree, and didn't want to waste my .5 or .75 cam...)

I have a single rack of cams
.3 x4 and .4-3 C4
Pink, red, and brow tr-cams
one set of nuts
I wanted something a bit smaller to protect thin sections, so I just picked up a .2 X4. I've been happy so far and have lead up to 5.7 thus far.

I'm in a similar spot to OP, so hope this helps.

Edit: I've only ever needed micros on one or two pitches thus far. I definitely like having the pink tricam especially since I don't have doubles in small sizes. I'd recommend pink and red. Don't bother with others. The pink/red tricams will have more versatility for the cost than a single cam... For a poor college student I'd recommend tricams. For a professional who can drop the money, just buy doubles.

superkick wrote:i like that people not from new england are telling a gunks climber tri cams are useless.

Is that any better than people suggesting tricams as a good investment for a beginner who said nothing about climbing at the Gunks?

Tricams are usually niche pieces that work well at certain areas in certain placements. For a beginning non-Gunks climber, they should be a second or third round expenditure. Same as a #5 Camalot or brass offsets- great gear, but not necessary for a beginner's rack. Especially seeing how a Camp tricam 4-pack is going for upwards of $100--that money would be better spent on cams, draws, or biners.

superkick wrote:i like that people not from new england are telling a gunks climber tri cams are useless.

Yeah, of course then there's the people who climb 5.11 at the gunks saying the same thing:

Brassmonkey wrote:I climb at the gunks, now getting into 11's there for some reference. When I first started climbing there on the easier routes I had maybe 7 or 8 tricams and enjoyed using them. After a couple of years I sold half of them due to lack of use and kept pink, red, and brown. I carried them racked with my stoppers for quite some time and then realized I never placed them either. Never. So why carry the extra weight? Sold, and I dont miss them one bit.

Weird. It's almost like the gunks isn't this magical place full of placements that take nothing but tricams...

Is it still true that (insert route here) would be 5.6 at the gunks?

I don't even know what to believe anymore...

Ryan Watts wrote: Yeah, of course then there's the people who climb 5.11 at the gunks saying the same thing: Weird. It's almost like the gunks isn't this magical place full of placements that take nothing but tricams... Is it still true that (insert route here) would be 5.6 at the gunks? I don't even know what to believe anymore...

Believe it Tricams are not as useful as some would have you believe.

rocknice2 wrote: Believe it Tricams are not as useful as some would have you believe.

And yet the cult following swears by them....

And the tri cam Cult is usually not all that hard;)
tri cams do work well at the Gunks. However, Aliens, Camalots, TCU's, Tied off rigid friends, etc all work great at the gunks. Stoppers and micro stoppers are also great at the Gunks. 36v Bosch does not work @ the Gunks;) although I hear the pad people down there wield a mean chisel.....

Nick Goldsmith wrote: although I hear the pad people down there wield a mean chisel.....

Great. Now you've done it.

rocknice2 wrote: Believe it Tricams are not as useful as some would have you believe.

if it's the only pro you've got they're quite useful =]

In the modern world of gear, Tricams are specialty pieces. Like Big Bros and Ball Nuts, there are climbs where Tricams can make a significant difference, but most of the time they aren't going to be needed, a cam will work just fine, and that includes the Gunks. This means, at least to me, that if you are building a rack, Tricams would not be on the list of starter pieces.

In the Gunks, if Dick says specifically in the guide that Tricams are "useful," I'd take that seriously. Either there is a critical hole-shaped placement too narrow for cams, a shallow vertical slot, or the kind of flaring placement, horizontal or vertical, that Tricams can handle and cams cannot.

Tricams, especially the new Evo models, make excellent nuts in their passive orientation. When I carried Tricams regularly before adopting cams, I usually used them passively with excellent success. If you are thinking of carrying 1 1/2 sets of stoppers, swapping out two of those extra stoppers for a pink and a red Tricam makes a lot of sense.

It is true that Tricams can be hard to remove, especially if fallen on, and so can slow down the party and/or result in ugly fixed gear. But part of the problem is a lack of knowlege about how to remove them---in this regard (and for other useful info), see camp-usa.com/product-highli….

The question of when to carry specialty pieces is tricky. If the guidebook tells you that you need them, that is one thing, but if you don't know what you'll be encountering, that is quite another. I like the 1 1/2 concept mentioned above; if I'm going to take more than a single set of wires, I'll usually include some Tricams instead of the analogous stopper sizes. You lose nothing this way and gain some versatility.

Pink and red is what I carry and probobly use them more passivly than activly. I know I have done Ed Webster routs where he reccomends tricams and forgetting to use them because my HB and Alien cams worked so well in the pockets.... I remember a lot of reguler cam placements in the Gunks but do not remember any climbs where a tricam saved my bacon.. It has been awhile... Micro stoppers were huge at the gunks as I recall...