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New route on the hairpin with shiny unpainted hangers?

Original Post
1Eric Rhicard · · Tucson · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 10,101

Anyone know who is putting these things in. There are four new ones with unpainted hangers and I would like to know who it is so I can credit them in the next guidebook and chastise them for not painting those little mirrors.

NickMartel · · Tucson, Arizona · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 1,332

If you are talking about P2 of "Guanica" (P1 are painted), and "Six Bats and a Ringtail Cat" then that was K and I (and we may switch them to painted hangers once Lefthand is in the "off season" so pretty soon here) but I suspect you are talking about something else. Is it 4 new bolts or 4 new routes? Where are they located more specifically?

BBQ · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 554

This is a good thread. It makes me not want to be "that guy". I am about to put in bolts on a wall soon. What paint should I buy to paint a bolt and hanger so that it matches up with a classic blonde limestone sort of look? Would a dull yellow work best?

1Eric Rhicard · · Tucson · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 10,101
Brent Larsen wrote:This is a good thread. It makes me not want to be "that guy". I am about to put in bolts on a wall soon. What paint should I buy to paint a bolt and hanger so that it matches up with a classic blonde limestone sort of look? Would a dull yellow work best?
I use gray Primer. If you do a couple of thin coats it lasts pretty well unless you are using those shiny Fixes. Stainless will oxidize over time so as the paint begins to disappear they don't shine anyway.
Brian · · North Kingstown, RI · Joined Sep 2001 · Points: 804

According to the "experts" on Mountain Project if you paint bolt hangers they will corrode and break and yer all going to die. I've been painting and falling on painted hangers for years and by some small miracle I'm still alive.

mountainproject.com/v/anyon…

Luke Stefurak · · Seattle, WA · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 2,573

Not me, but I've had bad luck painting hangers.

Eric, what brand of paint do you use? How much dry time between coats?

Thanks!

NickMartel · · Tucson, Arizona · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 1,332

$hit I use those shiny Fixe hangers... :)

I have had reasonable luck with spray paint primer, then a base coat of the desired color, then light coat of another color (light enough to only add speckling to it). Spray paint wont last that long but wears off first on the inside where the biners contact them and by the time it is all gone it is no longer shiny. But recently I have not been painting mine. IDK why not, I am just lazy I guess.

1Eric Rhicard · · Tucson · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 10,101

I use Krylon Primer and sometimes the High heat stuff if I can't find the other stuff. I usually paint it then wait 15 minutes or so and slightly depress the button so it spits out a spatter of flat black speckles. I live in AZ which has a humidity level of 7-14 most of the time.

As I said it doesn't last forever but it lasts long enough and allows the shine to dull up on all but the super shiny carbon steel Fixe hangers.

Hey Nick, I thought Mayhew had suggested painting your hangers to minimize the impact.

Brian · · North Kingstown, RI · Joined Sep 2001 · Points: 804

I use Rustoleum textured paint. You can get it to match just about any rock color.

rustoleum.com/product-catal…

Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945

Brian - I would recommend this actually... but in reality given the expert advice in the previous forum u linked to... climbers really should avoid painting the hangers. Likely won't effect us now but certainly 10+ years from now the issue might rear its head.

http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/specialty/camouflage-spray/

1Eric Rhicard · · Tucson · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 10,101

Regarding long routes. If they are sparsely bolted I prefer they not have painted hanger as it makes them easier to see. Having said that I would never use shiny carbon steel Fixe hangers in this situation. I prefer to use stainless if at all possible which will dull up en=ven if not painted. My partner buys Carbon now an then so I do use them but only if they have been painted.

Brian · · North Kingstown, RI · Joined Sep 2001 · Points: 804
Morgan Patterson wrote:Brian - I would recommend this actually... but in reality given the expert advice in the previous forum u linked to... climbers really should avoid painting the hangers. Likely won't effect us now but certainly 10+ years from now the issue might rear its head. rustoleum.com/product-catal…
Morgan, I haven't swallowed the Kool-Aid from the "expert" opinion. Maybe in corrosive salt-water environments sure but I've seen painted hangers in the Northeast for as long as I've been climbing (30 years) and have yet to see, or hear of, one failing because it was painted. All the examples of failed hangers were not related to painting.
Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945
Brian wrote: Morgan, I haven't swallowed the Kool-Aid from the "expert" opinion. Maybe in corrosive salt-water environments sure but I've seen painted hangers in the Northeast for as long as I've been climbing (30 years) and have yet to see, or hear of, one failing because it was painted. All the examples of failed hangers were not related to painting.
Ya i know.. I'm pretty much with ya on that one! hence my link to the matt camo spray...
1Eric Rhicard · · Tucson · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 10,101

Climbed this new shiny bolt route and it looks like they used Sleeve bolts. Not always the best choice as last week I pulled some 20 year old 3/8th sleeve bolts out with a 24" crowbar and they came out way too easily.

Jason Halladay · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Oct 2005 · Points: 15,153
1Eric Rhicard wrote:Climbed this new shiny bolt route and it looks like they used Sleeve bolts. Not always the best choice as last week I pulled some 20 year old 3/8th sleeve bolts out with a 24" crowbar and they came out way too easily.
Genuinely interested in the conversation here...20 years is a pretty decent lifespan for those sleeve bolts and it seems this is a good thing as the holes can be re-used with updated bolts (perhaps drilled out more for 1/2") whereas the wedge bolts are in there "for good". These are placements in vertical rock, not horizontal roofs, correct? Using a 24" crowbar to leverage the sleeve bolts is a much different, concerted and repeated tension force versus the typical shear forces from climbing falls (or takes...how many people actually go for it and fall anymore!)
Assuming (I know, that's not a good word) the holes were cleaned out well, I'd give the nod to the sleeve bolts. But I've not climbed or bolted where this route is located so take this comment FWIW.
J Achey · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 155

Make sure the hangers are oil-free before you paint them, by ragging them off with acetone or paint thinner. A dull yellow/tan ("Sand") works well for the limestone in my area. Several very thin coats, just enough to cover, and it really helps to mist irregularly with a second color, like black, brown, gray primer, or "anodized bronze," rather than use any single color. I end up with a range of color mixes in my bag, from sand to half-and-half to near-black, and pick one that matches the placement. But that's the sign of a true geek.

With stainless hangers available for just around $2 and 3/8 SS wedge bolts even less than that, even you AZ guys really should consider going all stainless. It's pretty cheap insurance. Pretty shocking what failure analysts have discovered recently about the microclimates inside bolt holes. Your application isn't as dry as you think, and minerals tend to concentrate over time.

RE painting stainless, it's true that painting will impair the formation of new protective oxides on surfaces, but for dry climates, on a hanger that's already properly oxidized, this probably isn't worth worrying about. Don't, however, get paint on threads that will be down in a bolt hole.

Amazing the routes land managers and nature-lovers don't even notice, when hangers are painted. Not that it's illegal to bolt most places, yet, but just sayin' ...

J Achey · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 155

And +1 for sleeve bolts, but they, especially, should be stainless (if you want a prayer of getting them out easily), and also 1/2", which makes them quite pricey ...

Eric Sophiea · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 232

I appreciate EFR's thoughts that a 20 year lifespan isn't really that great....

How many bolts have you put on Mt. Lemmon in the last 20 years, Eric? You should probably start the scheduled replacement of all of them soon so you can get on top of that job! ;)

1Eric Rhicard · · Tucson · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 10,101

The bolts we removed on Triangulate across the canyon were 3/8th sleeve bolts. To be fair we loosened the nut, tapped the shaft in to disengage the sleeve, then pried on the back of the hammer. There was a little bit of rust but as we pried the wedge was pulled pack into the sleeve. It also may be that the holes were too big as I could not use the old bolt holes with new 3/8th bolts.

1Eric Rhicard · · Tucson · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 10,101

Hey Jeff, what is with the +^^^ for sleeve bolts? I have occasionally used half inch in softer rock but when they started failing in some limestone around here I stopped using them.

1Eric Rhicard · · Tucson · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 10,101

Hey Eric, the replacement had begun. I have 40 ASCA bolts sitting in my shed right now. I am doing it. 5 piece stainless that should last 50 years and be removable. Until we come up with a better alternative this is what I will do.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Arizona & New Mexico
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