is it ethical to hire a fellow climber?

David Sahalie wrote:of course. Being good and serious about climbing should be something to put on a resume. How is this any different than say time in the peace corps or the military?

how different? um..service!

yeah climbing at a high level can show dedication, but I think you are fooling yourself if you think it's on par with your examples

James Piotrowski wrote: ... You put significant weight on her being a climber in the category of subjective criteria. And you might even be right to do so. ... YOu are probably considering weighing the subjective criteria in her favor because she does something that is difficult, that demonstrates a certain grace under pressure, that is evidence of overcoming what can be mind-killing fear. You're not thinking of giving preference because YOU are a climber, you are thinking of giving preference because SHE is a climber, and you happen to know that being a good climber usually requires certain personality/character traits that you think would be valuable to your employer. ....

I think this is where things get derailed. climbers tend to think of themselves as being special snowflakes or something. Climbers are no different than other people. some would be good folks to hire, some would be lousy folks to hire. I'm sure hard core knitters and extreme polka dance competitors also feel that they are special, and that their keen powers of concentration and timing would be a key asset to an employer.

when it comes down to it, you really need to be able to answer the question "would you hire this person if they weren't a climber?".

Alicia Sokolowski wrote:I say hire the climber. I have selected candidates before where they were not the most technically qualified based on "softer skills." This is not actionable legally. You don't have to default to the most stacked resume. Selecting a candidate because they would work well with the current team personalities or because you have indications they would be a longer term resource worthy of development are viable rationales. When I was still in law school, and they were prepping us for interviews, a hiring partner once said to me, “You’re all smart. You will all work hard. We pick the one we wouldn’t mind being trapped in a conference room for six hours with.” Go with your gut!

The thing is - does the thought "long term viability" really scream out in your mind when you are interviewing a climber? Not in my mind. It usually screams out "will work for 6 months, or as long as it takes to scrape together money for a road trip".

Obviously there are many folks who are exceptions to this. I know very good climbers who juggle serious jobs, a family, etc. I would really need to know more about the candidates. In particular, their employment history, what they want to do with their life.

The consensus was that other guy is (and I quite) "arrogant dick", so I am going with the climber girl. I am pretty bullish on her, but I want be sure she joining this industry for right reasons so will take her and my team for a quick bite later today.

And yeah, she could smirk at my stories - I have done much harder sport then she has, but she has done some incredible trad and alpine stuff.

Marek Sapkovski wrote:Just interviewed a girl, noticed that she took a year off after college. Apparently, she is was climbing full time and she's a real beast at it. Can't say that she's the most qualified candidate, but I can make a case for her. Also, since she's a woman, I would get positive points from management. Now the question - would it be ethical for me to give her preference because I am also a climber?

Ethics aside, why are you posting this touchy issue on the internet using your real name?? Unless you're using an alias, this seems like a bad idea.

I've tried "throwing a bone" to local climbers, it always bit me in the ass!

I suggest, and try to, hire the person that will perform the job the best, and hopefully without drama.

Also remember that people don't get stronger by staying at work a lot. . .

Zach wrote:
Ethics aside, why are you posting this touchy issue on the internet using your real name?? Unless you're using an alias, this seems like a bad idea.

That's what I was thinking. Now that you have the feedback from the community, delete the thread and ask the members who quoted you to delete.

However, great choice to hire her!

Marek Sapkovski wrote:The consensus was that other guy is (and I quite) "arrogant dick", so I am going with the climber girl. I am pretty bullish on her, but I want be sure she joining this industry for right reasons so will take her and my team for a quick bite later today. And yeah, she could smirk at my stories - I have done much harder sport then she has, but she has done some incredible trad and alpine stuff.

Based on what you'd said in the past and on this thread ("eat what you kill", pressure to hire women, etc.), I think I know the culture of the industry you work in. In that kind of environment "arrogant dick"s usually do well. He'd be a great addition to your team. And I don't mean it in a bad way.

Hire the best employee, not the best climber.

Hire Her already! You were looking for a candidate when she came along...If it doesn't work out, then find another!

The fact that this is being discussed in an open forum like this is astonishing to me.

Can she advance to the point of taking over your job?
Then thumbs down.
Thumbs up if she helps you advance.

In general, I don't hire dicks and try to keep the asshole level to the minimum, including myself as much as I can. The industry specializes in soul amputation so if the kid is a jerk right out of school, in a year he will be that "king of wall street" type. I definitely feel that my personality was effected by it and it sucks. No thanks, not that guy. .However, hiring people that can replace me is a great idea, I can go and do more interesting things.

Oh, yeah, this is screen name... Plus, this is obviously a hypothetical discussion, right?

isnt "how hot is she" the more important factor?

Marek Sapkovski wrote:The industry specializes in soul amputations?

Aw you're a banker!

Sounds more like a trading desk.

M Sprague wrote:Sounds more like a trading desk.

Yep, that's us - really adding value to society...

Marek Sapkovski wrote:In general, I don't hire dicks and try to keep the asshole level to the minimum, including myself as much as I can. The industry specializes in soul amputation so if the kid is a jerk right out of school, in a year he will be that "king of wall street" type. I definitely feel that my personality was effected by it and it sucks. No thanks, not that guy. .However, hiring people that can replace me is a great idea, I can go and do more interesting things. Oh, yeah, this is screen name... Plus, this is obviously a hypothetical discussion, right?

I feel for you man. That's a soul crushing industry.

I predict three months from now we will be seeing the following thread from the OP....

Office Romance- Is it ethical?

I hadn't looked at the OP name....Screen name, really? One minute of Google has provided some connection to people, in NY, who share hat name.

I agree - delete the evidence. Quickly, before "climber girl" or "arrogant dick" does a search in order to find out what sort of person THEY might be working with!