Backpackers that don't want to don a harness....

So let me put this past everyone and see what they think. I have two friends that aren't familiar nor comfortable with the rope. They have never rock climbed. However, they have asked to do the Trap Dike in the Adirondacks. For those unfamiliar, the Trap Dike is 2000' of 4th class rock with maybe a couple 5th class moves. I have backpacked with them a number of times, and they have scrambled on rocks in the Catskills and Daks with relative ease. I have no problem with climbing up to 5.9 on the east coast and have taken the AMGA SPI course.

How would you 'guide' them up? Simul-climb and use the rope as a placebo? Lead and belay? Or just scramble up until they feel uncomfortable and then tie in?

I did trap dike a long time ago, and I read it changed with one of the hurricanes, but my recollection is it had one 50 foot section that was way harder than the rest. I would belay this and solo the rest. simul-climbing seems appropriate where falling is unlikely, but there's a possibility of a fatal fall. It would be difficult to simul-climb to a degree of safety such that falling wouldn't probably result in both the second and the leader getting hurt. This is OK in some circumstances - it's a big improvement to go from "I will die if I fall" to "I will get hurt if I fall", but trap dike is so ledgy, that unless you're simulling so carefully (little slack, and a ridiculous amount of pro) that it's more of a hassle than belaying the pitch, I don't think the rope is likely to mitigate the fall, since you'd likely stop on a ledge before the rope caught you. I would belay the step, and solo the rest. I remember there being a long very easy slab at the top. simuling that might be appropriate, but I'm not sure there's any gear.

I have actually done the trap dike with one of my friend's dogs. The bottom half is very secure and pretty straight forward. We ended up belaying the dog up the 30ft staircase with with a hip belay. If took a non-climber up that, i'd do the same.

The only issues with non-climbers is that top 1000 feet. It is class 2-3 slab with no protection. If you are used to slab it is no big deal(the dog was unfazed by this portion). When I climbed it, i was not used to slab and it was wet so it felt pretty insecure. It was the only place I used my climbing shoes. Nothing really difficult, just a mental crux of not having thing to hold on to and have my feet slip on moss every so often.

So if you take someone up and they freak out, you have to go back down. No real options for belays or protection. I would just make sure they are comfortable with slab before i took them up.

Hope this helps.

Are you doing the Trap Dike in summer or winter conditions, and have you done it before? In dry summer conditions, the scrambling is quite secure, and would be totally fine to do unroped so long as you friends are surefooted and coolheaded. The most difficult/exposed bits are out on the slab anyway, where a rope wouldn't help much due to a lack of places for gear. Trying to pitch it out or simul would be a huge nuisance and probably make things less safe. If they are comfortable going unroped, just commit and go do the thing, sans rope, and make sure to be nearby to coach them through the cruxy bits. If they aren't comfortable doing it unroped, it would probably be better just to find a different objective.

Winter conditions are a different story.

I certainly wouldn't simulclimb with someone who doesn't feel comfortable on the terrain. I get that you're treating it like a placebo, but when I'm simulclimbing both partners need to be strong enough for the pitch, as a follower fall is bad juju. I'd be looking for a short double rope (30m glacier line or similar). Maybe look into tying right into the rope w/o harnesses to save the annoyance for 30 feet. Or just setup a hand line if that solves the problem.

What does "rope as a placebo" mean? Does it mean it's only psychological protection and won't actually catch a fall?

Precisely. It would catch a fall on the protection I place, but in reality, with how new they would be to be roped up, I wouldn't want that happening at all. I know them to be some what sure-footed - would they keep that confidence after looking at the Trap Dike? That's what I doubt.

Norm3 wrote:I have two friends that aren't familiar nor comfortable with the rope.

Have they requested a rope/belay?

Many hikers with no technical climbing experience have done the Trap Dyke (in summer)although it is something that one "works up to" after having climbed some of the other (easier) Adirondack Slides. There has been few incidents including a fatal fall at the steep step in the dyke and one incident in which a party had to be rescued because they were frozen by fear on the slab above the dyke.

It might be wise to do the 1990 slide on the other side of Colden first to be sure your friends are comfortable with that type of exposure. After some other slide experience, if they still request a rope I would follow Kendron's advice and "belay the step, and solo the rest" but I would make sure that they have a day of roped climbing under their belts before roping up in the backcountry.

To me this sounds like a nearly perfect application for short roping. Unfortunately, it's a pretty advanced skill that is not frequently found with any kind of precise description online because improper application can be quite dangerous. Houston and Cosley give it some treatment in the book "Alpine Climbing: Techniques To Take You Higher." If you are intending to go further with climbing instruction past your SPI, this location seems like a great place to practice this skill in the future.

For your current predicament, good coaching while simul-soloing and then belaying any particularly steep/challenging steps sounds like the way to go.

I've done the Trap Dike with each of my dogs (after we swam, with all our gear the length of Avy Lake). It's barely 4th (it is 4th, just not many moves) let alone 5th class.

I did however belay both dogs at the 4th class crux.

My recommendation, bring enough webbing  for harnesses, and a 30m 8mm glacier rope . maybe a few biners.

You can seek out a 5th class exit, but it's hard to do now with the new Irene slide.

The trap dike is one of my favorite routes of its kind in the dacks. I'll go ahead and second the previous comments that soloing most of it is the way to go and the upper slab can be intimidating for the inexperienced. I definitely wouldn't simul-climb any part of it...
On a side note, what is with people bringing their dogs on this climb? I guess the appropriateness of this entirely depends on the individual dog but I met this "Matt" guy and his friend in the trap dike. They were literally dragging their dog by the collar while it whined and cried. As I hiked past him on the slab his response was something along the lines of "Shes fine, I know what I'm doing, I climb in Colorado". Real nice...

Wow, dog by the collar. Seems unsafe. Not a big fan of collars to begin with, but definitely shouldn't be used as a haul loop. I think when used like that it's better termed a noose.

I've found most dogs do ok on slabs up to 4th or even low 5th. I've never had an issue with either of them, in fact on Whiteface my dog was encouraging my wife up the ski slides, as he was on Colden. My last dog(on his own, after we left him tied up at the base, climbed the first 2-3 pitches of CP slab, clearly to remind us he could hhave done it).

The inside of the Dike can be tough, but if your dragging your dog more than that 30ft step of honest 4th class, it's time to turn around.

Unfortunately most humans do great in the Dike and panic on the low angle 2nd class slab.

I recommend the newer Irene slab which is a few degrees steeper, but more featured and lacks the moss and tree islands. This is also a better option in the rain.