50m tag line?

I've got a 9.5mm, 70m single rope that I love. I'm wanting to get a 7.8 half rope as a tag line. If I could avoid carrying the extra 10m and just buy a 50m I would be stoked. I haven't done too many routes that require full 60m raps, could I just a single stand rap with 10m on the other side of the chains and a biner block at the chains?

Found this in a book on self rescue

JeffL wrote:I've got a 9.5mm, 70m single rope that I love. I'm wanting to get a 7.8 half rope as a tag line. If I could avoid carrying the extra 10m and just buy a 50m I would be stoked. I haven't done too many routes that require full 60m raps, could I just a single stand rap with 10m on the other side of the chains and a biner block at the chains?

Why not rap on both strands if you have them?

Ryan Nevius wrote: Why not rap on both strands if you have them?

The problem with rappelling on both strands would be passing the knot on rappel, an annoying and time consuming process. If you tie your knot/biner block on the 70 meter rope on the same side that you tie your ropes together, you would be able to do a 60m rappel on the opposite side of the knot and chains without having to pass any knots.

Sounds like a good idea to me, but if you are buying a cord just as a tagline, I would recommend just buying 50 meters of 7mil accessory cord, because the tag line is not being weighted during rappelling except for when retrieving the rope. That said, if you are worried about damaging a rope and having a backup, be sure to buy a half rope and not a twin rope.

Keith Earley wrote: The problem with rappelling on both strands would be passing the knot on rappel, an annoying and time consuming process. If you tie your knot/biner block on the 70 meter rope on the same side that you tie your ropes together, you would be able to do a 60m rappel on the opposite side of the knot and chains without having to pass any knots. Sounds like a good idea to me, but if you are buying a cord just as a tagline, I would recommend just buying 50 meters of 7mil accessory cord, because the tag line is not being weighted during rappelling except for when retrieving the rope. That said, if you are worried about damaging a rope and having a backup, be sure to buy a half rope and not a twin rope.

Gotcha. Missed that he was planning on doing rappels greater than 50 meters.

JeffL wrote:I've got a 9.5mm, 70m single rope that I love. I'm wanting to get a 7.8 half rope as a tag line. If I could avoid carrying the extra 10m and just buy a 50m I would be stoked. I haven't done too many routes that require full 60m raps, could I just a single stand rap with 10m on the other side of the chains and a biner block at the chains?

I think you are asking how to do the occasional 60m rap with a 50m tag line? Sorry if I've got that wrong.

Set the carabiner block as normal, rap down until level with the bottom end of the tag line and clip all your extenders and slings to the end of it. Unless you are only carrying a sports rack that should give you the extra 10m you require.

I just repelled off corona arch with my 70 m rope, used a biner block up top and used the para cord to pull it down.

You mean this? Should work fine. No passing of the knot or sling-tying trickery needed.

Sorry, I deleted my post since it was just wrong and confused the subject.

D.Buffum wrote:I think you're going to run into a lot of situations where you don't know if the end of your rope is down to the ground because you're estimating where the 10m mark is on the 70m rope.

Multiple ways to deal with this:

• Tie the two ropes together first, flake both ends together and arrive at the midpoint of the knotted ropes, which should be 10m from the end of the 70
• Figure out how many of your armlengths make up 10m, and flake that much off from one end of the 70
• Make a mark at 10m from each end of the 70

Just get a 70m half

That way you can use doubled techniques on wandering pitches

And you can bring 2 followers up on autoblock the full length

Messing up your lengths when you are cold, tired, hungry, wet, in the dark and wind isnt something you want to do

KISS

;)

I figured it would be a pain in the ass... I guess the question I should have asked is: how often does one encounter raps that are over 50m? The reason I want to employ this technique is to avoid carrying extra rope that won't be needed. I know that developers take lots of things into consideration regarding where to put anchors, all things equal, how many are actually set up that '2 60s are required' this seems to be the standard that is written in the topos I'd it can't be rapped with one 70, but I've noticed I generally have plenty of rope left

Occasionally there might be a 70m rap

I remember the royal arches you could skip a bit of downclimbing with 70m doubles

One Big advantage of simply using 2 ropes normally is that you once you get down you can start threading the ropes through the chain while your partners come down ... And then pull through the entire thing once they are down

With a biner block and smaller tag you need to wait till everyone is down to thread it through

Imo just get a 70m ... The last thing you want is to forget one side is shorter than the other in the dark

;)

If you are getting a rope above 7mm then it's really worth it to get something you can do a double rope rappel on. So get a full 60m cord. The biner block works great, but take extra time, especially when doing many rappels. The ability to pre-thread and switch ends saves a lot of time.

I will only use the biner block if I am doing less than 5 rappels.

If you want to get a 50m rope and do the biner block then you should get 5mm or 6mm. These work just fine as a pull cord as shown above. They are also WAY WAY lighter than a 7.8 mm rope.

So decided on the scenario you are looking for. If you just want an emergency rap line, there is no reason to go above 6mm.

- Luke

Just did some math and decided that the 50m isn't worth it for my situation. The rope I'm looking at is 41g per meter. An extra 10m is only going to weight 410g which is 14.6 ounces. I can live with less than 1 pound of extra weight for not having to do all the shenanigans of biner blocking, and single rope rapping. I'm also fine with doing an extra rap or 2 because I don't have the ability to do full 70m raps.

One last question referencing Bearbreeder's comment about threading the chains and getting ready for the next rap while your partner is coming down. I was taught to always thread the fat rope on rappel. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what the reason is but I believe it had something to do with not allowing the overhand knot (I don't believe in perpetuating the EDK name) to roll. In the last year I've done so many double rope raps and can't imagine why this would be a problem, especially with a difference of less than 2mm between lines.

JeffL wrote:Just did some math and decided that the 50m isn't worth it for my situation. The rope I'm looking at is 41g per meter. An extra 10m is only going to weight 410g which is 14.6 ounces. I can live with less than 1 pound of extra weight for not having to do all the shenanigans of biner blocking, and single rope rapping. I'm also fine with doing an extra rap or 2 because I don't have the ability to do full 70m raps. One last question referencing Bearbreeder's comment about threading the chains and getting ready for the next rap while your partner is coming down. I was taught to always thread the fat rope on rappel. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what the reason is but I believe it had something to do with not allowing the overhand knot (I don't believe in perpetuating the EDK name) to roll. In the last year I've done so many double rope raps and can't imagine why this would be a problem, especially with a difference of less than 2mm between lines.

I use a 60m static line (I think its 7mm) and always thread the fat rope because that's the end I'm pulling (always pull the heavier rope for more leverage if there's friction). I then retie the ropes together (edk) so the next rap is set up for the fat rope to be pulled again.

An advantage to using a static tag line is (once again) less friction while pulling. If you get a static tag line in a crack its going to come free much easier than a dynamic tag line that stretches.

I view raps with murphy's law in mind when it comes to stuck ropes. Unplanned bivies suck.