Victory Whippers Are Not Good Practice

Andy Novak wrote: To the OP, I agree with you; intentionally jumping off bolts just for the fun of it is in most cases not appropriate and should be frowned upon. Flame on.

I disagree with this. Bolts on sport climbs are put there to catch repeated falls, and it shouldn't matter whether that fall is intentional or accidental. If a bolt is old, or corroded, or poorly installed, or for some other reason unsuited to catching repeated whips, then it should be replaced with a bolt that can do what it is meant to do. The correct response is not to avoid falling on bolts, for fear of "wearing them out", but rather to be proactive about maintaining the hardware at your local crags and at the crags you visit. A stainless steel glue in will hold 10 victory whips a day for the next 100 years. Even if you are not out there replacing bolts yourself, you can donate to organizations like the ASCA, the Action Fund, or to various local organizations.

BURCHY.... I like your sense of humor.... lets go craging some day.

pease out all, this was a good troll... the fly was presented just right, I couldn't help myself. Sorry

EDIT.... JCM. thanks for saying what is up.

Guy Keesee wrote:BURCHY.... I like your sense of humor.... lets go craging some day. pease out all, this was a good troll... the fly was presented just right, I couldn't help myself. Sorry EDIT.... JCM. thanks for saying what is up.

Take me along too. FYI I like to do victory whips on quarter inchers.

Toby.... we could go take one on Walk on The Wild Side.

pure fun

Guy Keesee wrote:D.Buffum... Thanks for the links, but not one is a completely failed anchor. Yes there are lots of bad bolts out there and the climber must be able to spot the clues. I have personally pulled one out by HAND while getting lowered and cleaning. That one was a 3/8 buttonhead with the telltale hammer marks all over the head cause the idiot who placed it drilled the hole to shallow and then kept trying to make it bottom out and stop the hanger from spinning. This practice bends the head making it weaker, like bending a paperclip intill it snaps. And I guess that bolts in wet marine cliffs just suck always. and csproul..... that YV deal was complete user error. But let us address the OP.... Victory Wippers as unethical. (joke of the day / troll of the day and I took the bait :>) But my take on not trusting bolts is this. If your that afraid maybe climbing is not the best HOBBIE for you. ;>) EDIT: John thanks for replacing bolts. But still waiting for anchor bolts that failed??????? Both of them...

I Don't think anyone is advocating for a full blown bolt paranoia. But when you make a statement generalizing bolts as non issues then you are mistaken my friend.(and an obvious sign you have never made the effort to replace hardware) You are right, bolts are the safest way we have figured out to climb in the modern day and they have a very high rate of success. I have clipped thousands of bolts and not one has failed. This, however, does not mean that one should not be suspect of older/sketchy looking bolts. Bolts do fail, and with what it sounds like remarkable frequency from your perspective. Also I see your comment about this not being a hobby for someone who might not trust a bolt as a complete ass clown way of trying to tell everyone how bad ass you are. Being a little bit scared is and always will be good for any "real" climbers. Fear is what makes it exciting, it keeps us sharp, it keeps us from forgetting stupid shit 2000' off the ground that can kill people. If you think I am any less of a climber because I don't trust fixed hardware with 100% certainty, well I guess that pretty easily shows the real ignorant one here doesn't it?

JCM wrote: I disagree with this. Bolts on sport climbs are put there to catch repeated falls, and it shouldn't matter whether that fall is intentional or accidental. If a bolt is old, or corroded, or poorly installed, or for some other reason unsuited to catching repeated whips, then it should be replaced with a bolt that can do what it is meant to do. The correct response is not to avoid falling on bolts, for fear of "wearing them out", but rather to be proactive about maintaining the hardware at your local crags and at the crags you visit. A stainless steel glue in will hold 10 victory whips a day for the next 100 years. Even if you are not out there replacing bolts yourself, you can donate to organizations like the ASCA, the Action Fund, or to various local organizations.

+1

How much force is even put on an anchor from a whipper? The fact that you're at the top of the climb implies that it's probably a very low fall factor since there's so much rope out.

I think people lowering off anchors puts way more wear on the anchors than any fall ever would.

D.Buffum wrote: I disagree with this. Bolts are there to prevent climbers from decking in the event they are unable to complete the climb without falling. Bolts can handle repeated falls, but the purpose is not to encourage repeated falling, but to be durable and semi-permanent so that multiple climbers can fall on them without the necessity of frequent replacement. But that's just my take on climbing. My goal is not to fall. The pro is there so that I can fall if I have to without dying. If I wanted to spend my time falling, I'd take up bungee jumping.

It sounds like you are expressing a trad climbing mentality, which is not really applicable in this subject. Sport climbing by definition is climbing in which the focus is on difficulty, not protection. Trad climbing by contrast is climbing in which the focus is more on protection and route finding, and less on difficulty (in a typical sense).

You cannot partake in climbing in which difficulty is your primary focus and not fall often. It's literally physically impossible because if you are truly pursuing sport climbing in its raw form—to climb as hard as possible—then you will fall, and you will fall often. The bolts enable this mentality because bolts are easy to use and they are typically the most reliable form of protection.

I'll go C+. Not subtle enough and the examples are beyond asinine

holy flying fuckballs

You guys realize Ezekial has not posted since the original post that got all your panties in a wad, right?

I didn't understand the first post nor anything that has followed. It is like being caught in a giant toilet bowl with an idiot going round.......and.......round.......and........

I always wondered how bad of a slurpy headache Han got from the carbon freeze

D.Buffum wrote: I take the same "mentality" into trad, sport, toprope and bouldering.

Would you feel confident pulling a move that is one grade harder than your limit when you are 5' above a bolt? What about if you were 15' past a 0 TCU on a 15-pitch trad line risking a slab fall in the middle of nowhere? Or what about if you were 35' off the deck on a highball? Most would say yes to the former, but almost no one would say yes to the latter two.

There are several texts (rock warrior's way, 9 out of 10 climbers, etc) that recommend taking falls to combat fear of falling. This is good advice, and I don't have a problem with people taking falls on purpose to improve their climbing performance.

Most of the OP's reasons against victory whips are of a paranoid mindset. Wear on climbing equipment happens, and sure big whips can speed it up but just be smart about it. If you want your rope and hardware to last a long time, limit falls that are within your control. Bolts do wear out over time but almost always because of exactly that: TIME.

Mitch Musci wrote: Bolts do wear out over time but almost always because of exactly that: TIME.

Actually, if usually has more to do with oxidation.

I am not opposed to some one hucking themselves off the top of a climb but ppl that just arbitrarily trust all bolts should realize that a lot of the bolts around are getting close to the end of their presumed life. A non stainless bolt at any cliff is probably only realy good for like 10-15 years in average climates. Add high humidity and big temperature swings and that may drop a little. I'm not afraid of falling on bolts any more or any less than a good cam. Actually a realy good cam or a stonker good big nut I probably trust more because I put it there. Now I'm blathering, just trying to say not all bolts are good and every one should realize that.

Whats the difference between taking a "victory whipper" at the top of a climb ... And falling on it normally over and over again trying to nail that final move

You WILL whip once you get into the 5.11+/12s and above sport climbing ... Over and over again

Its THAT simple

;)

Discussing serious matters I may come off as scared or whatever you fools think I am. When I'm out climbing I have fun, climb hard but I naturally watch for safety issues. There wouldn't be something much worse than to see one of my friends, family or someone else get hurt, climbing or not.

From what I know a victory whipper is NOT clipping the anchors, regardless, I feel the same.

When you all talk about bolts being able to take repeated abuse it seems to me you talk about a brand new bolt in a perfect setting. Only "time" and "oxidation" wear down a bolt some of you argue. Well what if you are whipping on one of these bolts that have been around. So the abuse of the whip is actually worse. (let me guess your a flawless human being who checks everything)

Bolts wear down from whipping. If you want to increase the chance of it failing sooner to have fun jumping. You are selfish.

If we really want to make things exciting we should all clip our quick draws to the repelling rings. I mean really it makes it easier to clean the anchors and if it's easy for me who cares about anyone else. Better yet lets just TR on the repelling rings.

If you think taking whips doesn't decrease the longevity of the bolt you are wrong. If you think all bolts are made with equal strength you are wrong (maybe in a perfect world).

Why put more risk into climbing for OTHER people.

Even if it increases the risk by 1/2 a percent. With all the people climbing every year it may be worse thank you think.

The people disagreeing act like tools and the people agreeing debate in a civil manner. Wonder who I would trust if I was reading this for information.

Oh and,

AKRON OHIO!! haha so sad you make fun of me. Weekend warrior baby!

I think you are in need of warmer weather.