Getting the Second Rope Up the Climb - Multi Pitch

Max and I used to drag a pack all the time, maybe we just had good luck with it, I can't remember having a problem with it. Although, yes, on some routes its not worth it.

I'm certainly not advocating a heavy pack, certainly no more that both pair of approach shoes, rain gear water and a bar or two.

To NCTRAD,
As you don't want to use half ropes to climb with, climb on a single and let the leader to carry a coiled half rope on his/her shoulders and the second the pack.

If moving fast, don't bring a sack and let the second carry the rope.

David Coley wrote:To NCTRAD, As you don't want to use half ropes to climb with, climb on a single and let the leader to carry a coiled half rope on his/her shoulders and the second the pack. If moving fast, don't bring a sack and let the second carry the rope.

Your kidding / Right ? Let the leader carry a coiled rope...

Yosemite must have changed quite a bit.. I rarely recall double ropes being used much.

Sometimes it's worth weighing your options of going all the way to the top and walking off (like on DWt). Two climbers, one rope, no pack - COMMITTED. This is only recommended of course if you don't anticipate bailing (weather events, slow parties ahead, climbing at your limit) and you both have good knees. Just make sure to get up early and hydrate the day before and the morning of.

if you have a two singles or a single and a tag .... having the leader trail the tag/single makes self rescue SIGNIFICANTLY easier if it comes to that

imagine the very plausible scenario of where the second starts up a 60m pitch but then falls near the bottom and with rope stretch (10% static stretch with beals, which means 15+feet) hits the ledge and breaks an ankle

if the leader has doubles or trails the tag the steps are much easier and theres no need to leave gear

there other similar scenarios where the leader having both ropes makes things easier ....

a hint on traverses/overhangs ... have the leader not just clip the tag line to his harness, but to something structural ... that way if theres a fall into blank air/face ... the second can use the tag to reel the leader in

;)

JCM wrote: Do you have a better proposal?

Didn't mean to imply causation, just correlation. You could substitute "climb at RR" for "tie an EDK" and the sentence would remain true.

john strand wrote: Your kidding / Right ? Let the leader carry a coiled rope... Yosemite must have changed quite a bit.. I rarely recall double ropes being used much.

Hi, I wasn't talking about Yosemite. But I do do this often on long easy routes. Say Royal Arches if I was rapping off rather than walking. I'd be happy with a coiled 7.7mm on my back.

Second trails the second rope. Elementary. Why don't people just know small things like that????

I typically lead with my second rope in a 20L pack unless it is super awkward. This way I only have to manage one rope at each belay speeding up the transitions. Then when I get to the rappels I just have to undo the finish for the coils, saddle bag the coiled rope and head on down.

Bill Wa wrote:Second trails the second rope. Elementary. Why don't people just know small things like that????

Umm, because it's wrong?

I have climbed big free routes at my limit in Utah, California, North Carolina, Thailand, Spain, etc, and with dozens of different partners. In nearly every situation, we do the following:

Both climbers carrying small pack/camelback with water, snacks, approach shoes. This immediately eliminates the possibility of climbing with a rope on your back so let's put that idea to bed.

Stupid idea number two: carrying a static "tag line" on a free climb. They are no lighter than a half rope, but the half rope is a LEAD ROPE! If you're traveling and only have space for two ropes, make one a single and one a half rope. If you have space for three, then get a set of doules.

Stupid idea number three: second tags the rope. Why on earth would anyone think this is a good idea? Having a 60 metre rope hanging below, so the wind can wrap it around a corner or so a crack can eat it? No thanks!

Leader ALWAYS trails both ropes. And since you're gonna be carrying them up, why not tie into both and lead on both? Doesn't matter if one is a single or they are both halves, you can use both for pro. Makes it easier to manage rope drag, allows you to carry less slings, and keeps the entire rope from hanging free below you on steep pitches. You'd be surprised how much lighter a trailing rope can feel if it's clipped through some gear as opposed to blowing in the wind.

This thread is so relevant to me. Longest rappel I've down is 30 meters. I own 2 "regular" (not dual or twin) ropes. I am planning on visiting my parents in Las Vegas early May. I really want to do Cat in the Hat and Tunnel Vision. The first climb calls for 2 rope raps. I'd like to make it work or would youpre experienced climbers recommend buying rope?

Jonny 5 wrote:This thread is so relevant to me. Longest rappel I've down is 30 meters. I own 2 "regular" (not dual or twin) ropes. I am planning on visiting my parents in Las Vegas early May. I really want to do Cat in the Hat and Tunnel Vision. The first climb calls for 2 rope raps. I'd like to make it work or would youpre experienced climbers recommend buying rope?

Got extra cash? Plan on doing a lot of multi pitch climbing with double rope raps? In that case spring for double/twins or a single skinny rope to rap with your single. Seems like it might be useful in Squamish (DOn't know, l've never been there)?

If you don't want to spend the $$ and/or you'd mostly use this for rare trips, then don't buy. For what you want to do, you'll be fine with what you have. It will work.

Matt N wrote:eff the second - if they're not leading they can handle the weight of a rope. A single 60m fits fine in an REI Flash sized pack and is more comfortable than backpack coiled ropes and won't get caught on something.

This.

I'll chime in just to agree with everyone who has recommended having the follower carry the rope coiled or in a backpack. I suppose it depends on the angle of the climb, but trailing two lead ropes SUCKS on the easier slabs and featured climbs at RR. Once you get a lot of rope out, that friction on the sandstone really adds up, not to mention all the little features you can get snagged on if the pitch wanders a bit. I have followed with a second rope backpack coiled, and it was preferable for our party. Plus you don't have to worry about managing two ropes at a belay.

By Jonny 5
42 mins ago
From Squamish BC

"This thread is so relevant to me. Longest rappel I've down is 30 meters. I own 2 "regular" (not dual or twin) ropes. I am planning on visiting my parents in Las Vegas early May. I really want to do Cat in the Hat and Tunnel Vision. The first climb calls for 2 rope raps. I'd like to make it work or would youpre experienced climbers recommend buying rope?"

Hi Johny,

You can easily walk off Tunnel Vision, and given that you already have two ropes I certainly wouldn't buy anything new just for CITH.

Maurice Chaunders wrote:Dude above me meant to say "tie an EDK AND your rope will get stuck"

uh, no?

GMBurns wrote: uh, no?

I think he meant to say that no matter what knot or no knot, ropes will get stuck in RR. Shorter single rope rappels or walk-offs are more ideal.

Jonny 5 wrote:This thread is so relevant to me. Longest rappel I've down is 30 meters. I own 2 "regular" (not dual or twin) ropes. I am planning on visiting my parents in Las Vegas early May. I really want to do Cat in the Hat and Tunnel Vision. The first climb calls for 2 rope raps. I'd like to make it work or would youpre experienced climbers recommend buying rope?

You can easily walk off Tunnel Vision, and given that you already have two ropes I certainly wouldn't buy anything new just for CITH.

Derek Doucet wrote: You can easily walk off Tunnel Vision, and given that you already have two ropes I certainly wouldn't buy anything new just for CITH.

Thanks alot. I dont see why you would have the leader manage the extra rope? The only drawback i see to having the follower carry the rope would be not fitting a chimney. I am planning on recruiting a buddy in Vegas with only gym experience. Therefore I will be leading all the pitches. I'm ok leading 5.7-8 Squamish granite so figured CITH would be a good first climb to figure out where I stand vis-a-vis sandstone both for climbing and gear....

Same situation / debate I am going thru. Will be doing to red rocks in early april and have my eyes set on Solar Slab. Tried to acquire most beta I could. Since this will be my most committed day yet.

At this point I am 90% set on single and tagline, though I might substitute a tagline for a single Half/Double (for reasons of leading a pitch in case of rope snag)

My second will carry tagline in the backpack.

In case of bail due to weather or time, I will rappel the route.