I want to start my own guiding business. Where do I begin?
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Hi all, I have been climbing for quite a long time (20 years), and now decided to start my own guiding business. I don't have any certifications, only experience. I own a commercial vehicle and have a commercial insurance on it (if it matters). I would like to find out how to go about getting certifications necessary for the business, but as a tax write up. |
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Assuming this is a troll and/or joke since the OP joined about 15 minutes ago, I'll kick off the snark-fest.... |
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Hi there, you are certainly thinking big! So to start a guiding service generally you need to get a permit for whatever State Parks you are hoping to guide in. If you are hoping to guide in National Forest, BLM, or National Parks you can forget about it. It takes YEARS to get approved by the federal govt for a commercial outfitter permit. |
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You've been climbing twenty years and don't know who to contact about certifications? Instead, you ask MP? Not a good sign... |
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FrankPS wrote:You've been climbing twenty years and don't know who to contact about certifications? Instead, you ask MP? Not a good sign...This was my first thought as well.. The AMGA certification process is not a cheep or speedy undertaking, even if you plan on guiding single pitch rock.. |
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"Suit yourselves and be dicks about it if you wish." |
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oh and all the tax write offs you have planned for those gear purchases aren't exaclty going to work out because when you claim those you'll have to file an income tax return for your biz...and all that lovely equipment will have property taxes due on it.(this is a separate return). |
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AMGA certifications can be expensive and a slow process to obtain, but they will be well worth it. Not only is it a great point that you can promote, but their courses and certifications will help you make the transition from a recreational climber to a climbing professional. The two are not the same. If you are looking at just guiding in a single pitch environment, AMGA's SPI course and certification together are only about $800-900. Additionally, if are as experienced as you say you are and have some mock instructing experience, you can take the course and exam back to back and be SPI certified in a few weeks, depending on scheduling. Please be responsible and get the proper certifications. You and whoever is reading this thread might find this link help/interesting. Guiding's Professional Problem |
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You should review the "hobby loss rules" with your tax advisor before you start. |
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Bill Wa wrote:how to go about getting certifications necessary for the business, but as a tax write up.AMGA fees could probably be deducted as an American Opportunities tuition tax credit on your personal return. I don't think the fees could be deducted as a business expense since the course qualifies you to work in a new profession. The business could likely take losses as long as it doesn't look like a hobby - since you haven't proposed any stellar ideas of how to attract clients & aren't making any money. This loss could be used to offset your white collar income. Professional athlete information: You could market yourself as a professional athlete. A pro can deduct the cost of business such as gear and massages. Temporary housing (rent) is deductible if seasonally living somewhere to perform. Rookies can sometimes deduct expenses associated with entertaining veterans in order to fulfill their job. |
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Bill Wa wrote:This company we are cooking up will not be so much profit driven as it will be more for fun and to be able to get pro deals and write offs for new gear, vehicles, mileage, hotel stay, etc. etc.You'll need to at least make it appear profit driven. The IRS hobby loss rules are based on the idea of a "profit motive". Without a profit motive it is a hobby. A profit motive would also entail a business plan, growth strategy, separate bank account and credit card, etc... |
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Bill Wa, $800 is fairly inexpensive in comparison to what it takes to get higher certifications. It is becoming common for guides to pay the equivalent of a masters degree for their training and continued education in their field. Many of those are now IFMGA certified guides. I am not saying that you need to dish out that much and become a full mountain guide with the AMGA if you only want to guide and instruct single pitch climbs. |
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Trav W. wrote:Bill Wa, $800 is fairly inexpensive in comparison to what it takes to get higher certifications. It is becoming common for guides to pay the equivalent of a masters degree for their training and continued education in their field. Many of those are now IFMGA certified guides. I am not saying that you need to dish out that much and become a full mountain guide with the AMGA if you only want to guide and instruct single pitch climbs. Aside from the certification, the SPI curriculum will give you tools so that your potential future clients will be rewarded with a better day. I know that if I was a client I would want to get the most for my money. Having taken the SPI course and assessment, I know that you will learn those skill and also learn quite a bit about the industry of guiding including insurance practices (at least I did on my course). Before going out and purchasing insurance and business licenses I would recommend taking the AMGA SPI course.Well said Trav. W. I did the SPI Course/Assessment as well and I was surprised at a lot of the skills, both hard and soft that I did not know. The real value of professional instruction is in the soft skills that recreational climbers take for granted... |
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Bill Wa wrote:This company we are cooking up will not be so much profit driven as it will be more for fun and to be able to get pro deals and write offs for new gear, vehicles, mileage, hotel stay, etc. etc.If this is the case, you should consider starting a climbing club. This is what a friend of mine did, and I how I was introduced to climbing. He had looked into guiding as well, and determined that insurance and permits would be out of the question. He started a climbing club, and that allows him the structure to take people out climbing on just about any federal land where it is allowed. Dues were charged to the members of the club that allowed for purchases of gear, a free checking account was set up in the club's name and waivers were signed by anyone that joined the club. It works really well, if you aren't looking for profit. It also allows a venue for arranging prodeals, although he never really pursued this. The dues can be used to fund outings, such as mileage for vehicles and other things you mentioned. It is a great way of introducing new people to climbing and allowing them to help your fund trips. |
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PS - I would really recommend getting your AMGA SPI certification, or at least taking the class(~$400), as there is a tremendous amount of good information and practice in it. Also, I'm not sure, but the dues from the club could probably pay for it. You would have to double check that though. |
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Even without considering the certs, the insurance will probably kill it. If you go without ins, you'll be on the hook for anything some asshole lawyer dreams up. |
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Bill Wa, Bill Wa wrote:I would like to find out how to go about getting certifications necessary for the business,Within a day, you didn't want certs anymore: Bill Wa wrote:how do I find the areas where AMGA or any other certs are not required to guide?I don't think you are interested in doing anything that costs money or takes time to obtain permission or certs to legally guide. |
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I hear trolling is great preparation for opening a guiding business. |
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Grant Potter wrote: To start your business effectively you should find a salesforce consultant in case you lack the required skills and knowledge, who can provide unique strategies and solutions needed for your business growth. Later on, be sure to get familiar with community implementation guide salesforce once you decide to extend business processes Resurrection - or a bot? |