How to let down a sketchy climber friend

Hey guys, Ive been climbing for a while and an old climbing partner of mine just recently asked me to climb with him. After badgering him about not wearing a helmet, he fell 2 times hitting his forehead both times. He still refuses to wear a helmet despite the fact that he almost killed himself twice in less than a week. Ive been taking courses to be safe: SPI, a self rescue course and WFR, and this only makes him worse about safety. He always says that I can just pull him off the wall if anything happens. Even If I can, I dont want to get caught up in that situation. Hes an old friend, we have been climbing forever together and its hard to say no, but I dont want to get into a messy situation. What ways can I let this guy down easy?

Be straight forward about it tell him you don't like climbing with him and you don't like the situation he is putting you in.

Put it on the wife and say she wont let you climb with people that dont practice the same safety measures you do.

You're asking climbers on mountain project for social advice??? On a task that requires delicacy??? MPers can't even answer a simple question with grace and courtesy. (As an example, re-read this post.)

Send this question to Ask Alice. Let us know what she says.

ZackBay wrote:Be straight forward about it tell him you don't like climbing with him and you don't like the situation he is putting you in.

Do this (what Zack said). There's no way around hurting his feelings, but you don't have to say it in a nasty way. He's not going to like it, no matter how you say it. But say it.

I have had very similar experience. My sketchy friend took a 40 footer while climbing an x rated route that I told him multiple times he wasn't ready for, i stopped him only 2 feet from the ground. Along with a plethora of other sketchy thing I stopped responding to his request to go climbing then eventually just told him he was too sketchy to climb with. I just didn't want to clean his dead carcass of the ground.

Just tell him, maybe he will wise up when his good friend stops climbing with him.

Maybe you've already taken care of it by posting this question. How many people hit there head and almost die twice in one week?

SexPanther aka Kiedis wrote: now I just sound like a jerkoff. Ding!

+1

don't worry little avatar, to me, you will always be the VaG, aka Killis Howard.

This should be a pretty simple conversation.
"We have different climbing styles in terms of safety, and would be better suited to different belay partners."
or less tactfully...
"No thanks. I don't feel like dragging your stupid carcass out of here today".

invertedbathang wrote:He always says that I can just pull him off the wall if anything happens.

And if you're the one who gets hurt? What's his dumb ass gonna do?

invertedbathang wrote:Hey guys, Ive been climbing for a while and an old climbing partner of mine just recently asked me to climb with him. After badgering him about not wearing a helmet, he fell 2 times hitting his forehead both times. He still refuses to wear a helmet despite the fact that he almost killed himself twice in less than a week. Ive been taking courses to be safe: SPI, a self rescue course and WFR, and this only makes him worse about safety. He always says that I can just pull him off the wall if anything happens. Even If I can, I dont want to get caught up in that situation. Hes an old friend, we have been climbing forever together and its hard to say no, but I dont want to get into a messy situation. What ways can I let this guy down easy?

If a helmet (assuming you aren't ice climbing) is what is making you think he is unsafe, I have to draw the conclusion that you are both inexperienced and high anxiety. Those two things often put people into far sketchier situations than the lack of helmet.

I'd rather climb with him and finish routes rather than climb with you and end up bailing off a 26 point anchor in the dark.

I think you would be doing yourself a huge disservice by ditching a partner who is both willing to push himself and could maybe teach you to relax a bit.

Change your phone number and move.

Is nicelegs your partner? ^^^^^^^

SexPanther aka Kiedis wrote: No shit, holmes. I heard OP say the guy took two consecutive shots to the dome and still can't figure out the helmet equation. You in that category too?

I wear one when appropriate.

You know as well as I do that if the guy is consecutively busting his head in falls, it's not something you fix with a helmet but with positioning, different gear placements, or backing off the damn route. You don't fix bad driving by putting on a seatbelt, you stop wrecking the damn car!

I've knocked my head once in 17 years. Was upside down on squat and popped with my legs still above my head. Rang my bell to the point that I wasn't climbing for a few days. If homeboy had done that, I guarantee he wouldn't have just jumped back into the same spot. Seems like all he got was a couple love taps, far cry from nearly smashing his head.

It's probably sketch vs sketch with this duo though, maybe a breakup would do them both some good.

Ben Beckerich wrote: Hardly any rock helmets are rated for side impacts- they're NOT crash helmets, and aren't going to adequately protect you in a lead fall. They're for impact from above. Notice how the helmet sits way up and there's not really any XPS on the sides of the helmet, if there's any at all? Some newer helmets are rated for crash, but probably 99% of what's on dudes heads at the crag isn't. Given this... is the premise valid?

Your opinion is out-dated. Most climbing helmets on the market today have foam and are rated for crash. Some even are rated for multi sports like biking and kayaking.

I would slam the side of my Petzl Sirocco into a wall over the bones of my skull any day.

I'm pretty sure BD Vector and Vapor are, they look like skate helmets anyway. I also have seen Wild Country and Trango foam helmets. I'm sure every manufacturer right now makes crash-rated helmets.

I'm psyched that this is going to turn into another helmet thread.

Anyway, I have posted up many times in the past that a helmet is only one component of overall brain safety when climbing and if you ignore the others, the helmet isn't likely to save you.

A helmet is pretty much built to save you from rocks the size of a fist or smaller. If a brick or toaster sized rock comes at you from more than a few feet, doesn't matter what is on your head. Even a so called "crash helmet" is nothing compared to a motorcycle helmet and those don't even work all the time. It is time to stop pretending that helmets are magical.

In fact, I think some of you guys are so mired in the delusion that your helmet will save you that you are putting yourself into situations that are more likely to get you brained. Similar to the Australian study that showed cars passed cyclists wearing helmets closer than they did ones without.

Is there loose shit around you? Are you able to move? Are you paying attention? Is the climber approaching anything that looks loose? Does your belay stance offer any natural protection? Finally, can you see any reason why the whip you are about to take will flip you over? Where are your legs and where is the rope? How is the rise on that harness, still balanced even with all those clothes and extra rack?

To those that say every little thing helps, I ask why you aren't attaching a pillow to the top of the helmet, cause it might help a little.

If you slap that red-green piece of gum they used on Mission Impossible, he'll blow up, and then you won't have to worry about helping him out.

I would keep that friend for practicing my skills on. Let's say he gets a head injury. Hey we are all adults here. He knows the risks and all. If he is intentionally doing so I would assume that it's OK for me to practice on him if shit hits the fan. If he wants to be drag off the mountain turn it into a rescue practice. Be chill about it. It will make you better in the long run. Use every opportunity to practice your skills. Turn lemons into lemonade!

My local sport crag is a bit chossy. Sometimes, I wear a helmet even when I'm belaying. A local climber got hit by a rock on a climb and had to get stitches. Ruined at least a day for her for sure. I'm not always spatially aware of the rope, so I wear a helmet when I lead (of course always wear a lid on alpine/ice). I figure if I brush up against a rock and get even a small abrasion, that will end my climbing day for sure. At least with a helmet I can keep on climbing. Of course if I have living daylights knocked out of me, helmet is not much of a help.