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Racking your cordelette.

Rick Blair · · Denver · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 266

One more vote here for the equalette. I keep mine pre-tied and I feel like I can now set this up faster than a pre-equalized cordalette or using the rope. I also like how easy it is to change its direction without ever removing the rope from the anchorpoints.... just adjust the cloves. And if I feel like the pro at my belay is sketchy I can quickly make a 4 point anchor. As to the actual topic, the limiting knots on the equalette also make it rack nicer.

If you know the route you are doing will not involve running the rope out to the ends and you are for sure going to swing every lead, the equalizing figure 8 gets my second vote.

Leo Zacharias · · Boulder CO · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 45

How would you set up a reverso to belay the second with an equalizing figure 8? where do you clip it?

Rick Blair · · Denver · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 266

Create a loop below the equalizing figure 8, that will be your master point.

Josh Brown · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 20

i would agree with beagle in that no matter what way your rack a 7mm perlon cordelette it will be bulky. I use 5.5 titan cord from blue water and regardless of how it's stored it is always smaller than my old 7 and 8 mm cordelettes. You'll get people who will disagree with this as it doesn't have they dynamic qualities that perlon does but i't just my opinion.

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145
Greg D wrote: Not so. Cordelette is a technique for tying into and thinking you have equalized two or more pieces using a cord. Equalette is a technique for tying into and equalizing two to four pieces with a cord created by an engineer Bob Gaines along with John Long.. Definitely not the same. It is relatively new and most are not familiar with it. Mark, I've come across many tech discussions with you. You seem quite knowledgable. Do you use an equalette, cordelette or other?
Yes a cordalette & equalette are different rigs but they are the same cord for racking purposes -- It's probably better to say there are different ways of rigging multiple point anchors. A cordalette really just means you have a certain amount of feet of smaller diameter cord used for rigging.

I've used both rigs, as well as the x, cord as webolette, rope, naturals, slings, threads, & some others that have a range of motion for static load rescue rigs.

It's useful to learn as many rigs as you can & learn the benefits, failings, and how they basically work with a given situation -- not just discard bringing accessory cord; but learn the benefits of it such as self ascension, hauls, block & tackle, torso/head stabilizer, v & a threads, & significant other tie-downs -- cord is really versatile.

The more important application is using solid placements/anchors and getting good angles. For recreational rock anchors, I've moved away from tech cord and back into nylon material for elasticity, but will still use slings for the x. I'll also still use the typical cordalette multi-point rig as it's fast, redundant, & allows for two work points. When using this, I don't care about perfect equalization between all the anchor points; but I do look to get distribution with 2 out of the usual 3-4 pro placements; I think nylon helps.

I guess my first thoughts in trad anchor construction are solid, then redundant rigs that distribute loads with angles. Once I do that, then my focus is on how the anchor itself will be protected -- not falling on one during the next lead is the main concern to me.
Paul Hunnicutt · · Boulder, CO · Joined Sep 2006 · Points: 325

I take about a 12" section of the cordelette and then wrap the rest around it continually and once out of cord I clip the ends together. SUPER easy to unwrap...just take the biner out and it all unravels.

If I'm doing a belay redirect I typically like to have it through the anchor...nothing like having that one piece pop and all the weight transfered directly onto you. I'm mostly using the Guide or Reverso now so this isn't an issue.

B 2 · · SLC · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 5

No offense Justin, but I dont like this method. Why, after going to the trouble of building a proper anchor, would you set it up to be potentially shock loaded?

I use your method for protecting a factor 2 once your partner is leading the next pitch, but I wait until they're at the belay to plug this upper piece and redirect the rope.

Brian Adzima · · San Francisco · Joined Sep 2006 · Points: 560

I used to use it to keep the hexes off the bottom of my gear bin, but it seems to be more useful here.

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Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145
Justin Cantrall wrote: None taken. I'll reconsider the method. That's why we discuss these things--for different perspectives. Thanks.
Yeah, I'm not to keen on that either; granted your second is on a dynamic line, but I would rather just belay a second direct off the anchor if I could; or do the redirect off the anchor. Looking for that additional placement might not be ideal and all you do is take extra time on the switchover that you don't need to do.

As far as leading, you can always focus on not hitting the anchor on the next lead -- if you can't get a lead piece to protect it, you simply can't fall.
woodcraft · · Fairfax, CA · Joined May 2008 · Points: 0
Mark Nelson wrote:you'll have to re-rig it then. How many times does someone actually need to escape the belay? not many; if any. My point being, the chances of that occurring are not that great & then also to where you'll need to work on your partner, even less. It's good to know how to switch riggings and stay in a redundant system, but foregoing the rope as rigging in anticipation of a full-on medical situation is a bit much. You'll have time to make any adjustments as any medical evac is not going to be so speedy that having an anchored rig direct or having to switch from a harness/redirect is not critical. Okay maybe 2 cases: your partner is getting asphyxiated by their gear sling or they clipped an artery. Even if you had a direct baseline on the rig, could you get down to them in time & do some good? Ya just never know. For a leader pick-off past 1/2 way -- I'll say; that'll be a tough one.
If you lead everything, then you 'escape the belay' every pitch. If you built the anchor from the rope, it must be reconstructed while you and your partner are hanging from it.

If you bring a second cordelette, then you can avoid this problem on the next pitch as well. (Yeah, I know- slings etc.)

When you add up all the routine and emergency uses, why wouldn't you bring at least one?

I'm surprised how often I see folks with a cordelette on the back of their harness wound up tight and looking like it hasn't been used in years, if ever.

Anyway, I generally have two- one 7mm, and one 5.5mm spectra. one is somewhat longer so might be better to extend an anchor point, or sling a chockstone, whereas the shorter is better for a two bolt anchor, etc.

I use the quadruple-and-twist method, which avoids the bulk of a knot, but is a little more prone to snagging. This method does call for a large biner to hold the multiple strands.
Charles Truslow · · Boulder,CO · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 25

Twist it, wrap it, you'll find a system that works for ya. Also, don't forget to bring two if your leading each pitch! Made that mistake today in Eldo, got to the top and realized "oh yeah, it's at the last anchor." Woops! had to belay of a sling.

David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70
Greg D wrote: Equalette Advantages: Much better equalization. You're guaranteed to be equalized on at least 2 pieces. On a cordelette, for equalization to occur, the arms' lengths must be identical, the angles between the arms must beidentical and the direction of pull must be very well anticipated. We know this is a near impossible situation as the direction of pull can change and arms' lenght and angles are almost never the same. Studies of load distribution on 3 piece cordelettes have shown usually one piece holding 60-80% of the load, the second piece holding only 20-30% and the third very little. This phenomena was unfortunately displayed when two guys were killed at Tahquitz a few years ago. The leader fell onto the anchor, it pulled at they both fell 400 feet. I nearby witness heard 3 distinct pops as the anchor ripped. They had a 3 piece anchor tied with a cordelette.
As other's on this site have pointed out, equalisation via a sliding system often doesn't help to make for a stronger belay. Hence the normal powerpoint approach has remained so popular.

From "High: advanced multi pitch climbing":

"Equalisation plays no role if one piece has less than half the strength of another. Imagine one arm of a perfectly equalising belay can take 6 kN and the other 3 kN. It might be tempting to think this belay can take 9 kN. However, if a 6.1 kN load is applied each arm with receive 3.05 kN, the weakest arm will fail, and then the stronger as it receives the full 6.1 kN. "

The mathematical window where a sliding system can help is very small, sometimes it might help, other times it might just increase the force when a piece blows and you drop onto the limiter knot.
Ryan Watts · · Bishop, CA · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 25

Triple it up then tie into a figure 8. Fold in half and clip the loops through a locker. I use 7mm but thinking about switching to 5.5mm for bulk.

And to everyone who seems to always rig anchors the same way (e.g. always use the rope or always use cord, etc.) it might be worth considering that the different rigs are just tools and it depends on the situation which is best.

For me,
Swapping leads, "short" multipitch Cragging with little chance of bailing = use rope
Swapping leads, "long" multipitch or alpine with possibility of bailing = usually bring at least 1 cordelette. Sometimes use it for the anchor, sometimes not. But I like having it in the case of bailing / self rescue.
Not swapping leads = Almost always 1-2 cordelettes. Simpler and faster (at least for me). Also in my case if I'm not swapping leads I'm usually doing all the leading with a less experienced partner. Much more straightforward for them to just clip in to a master point.

I've never used an equalette nor have I ever seen anyone use one, but if its just as simple as a cord setup I might take a look at it for future use. Most of the time I'm belaying off bomber gear so true equalization doesn't matter, but it would be a good trick to know in case I find myself belaying off some mank nest of RPs and microcams at some point.

And Wilk · · Espanola, NM · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 55
David Coley wrote: From "High: advanced multi pitch climbing": "Equalisation plays no role if one piece has less than half the strength of another. Imagine one arm of a perfectly equalising belay can take 6 kN and the other 3 kN. It might be tempting to think this belay can take 9 kN. However, if a 6.1 kN load is applied each arm with receive 3.05 kN, the weakest arm will fail, and then the stronger as it receives the full 6.1 kN. " The mathematical window where a sliding system can help is very small, sometimes it might help, other times it might just increase the force when a piece blows and you drop onto the limiter knot.
A little off topic here, but does this mean that throwing a sliding-x on a couple of mediocre placements (mid climb) doesn't do as much as we would like it to? By this train of thought the two pieces would rip whether they were equalized or not.
rocknice2 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 3,847
A.wilk wrote: A little off topic here, but does this mean that throwing a sliding-x on a couple of mediocre placements (mid climb) doesn't do as much as we would like it to? By this train of thought the two pieces would rip whether they were equalized or not.
No it doesn't mean that. It's a numbers game but it is true.

The sliding anchor is as strong as the weakest piece times the number of legs.
Hence a 6kn+3kn=6kn and a 3kn+3kn=6kn
or
3kn+4kn+5kn=9kn
or
1kn+5kn+5kn=3kn but can hold 10kn
since anything above 3 kn will rip the 1kn piece but then you're left with an anchor consisting of 5kn+5kn=10kn

In a perfect world with no friction, angles or a whole bunch of other things.
Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665

All this thread and not a single diversion on how to rack your nuts.
Pictures please.

David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70
A.wilk wrote: A little off topic here, but does this mean that throwing a sliding-x on a couple of mediocre placements (mid climb) doesn't do as much as we would like it to? By this train of thought the two pieces would rip whether they were equalized or not.
it might be a good idea but the window is small. Ideally it gives a strength of x2 the weakest piece. (As pointed out by the last poster) Which sounds good. However to be of benefit we also require that neither of the pieces by themselves would be able to take the load. Hence the small window. It is made possibly smaller because an X is not frictionless, so the load might not share well. Plus the angle on the two pieces might not be the same. These two factors taken together might mean one of the pieces could take twice the load of the other. And we are back to square one.

So, a sliding-X might be ok, but it might be a waste of time. In many climbing manuals the impression is given that they make sense a lot more of the time than they do.

If you are in balance and can do it without pumping out it might be worth it. But most of the time I think it is best just to spend the energy you have making the most you can out of the placements and clipping the lot in series.
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
rocknice2 wrote:.....1kn+5kn+5kn=3kn but can hold 10kn since anything above 3 kn will rip the 1kn piece but then you're left with an anchor consisting of 5kn+5kn=10kn In a perfect world with no friction, angles or a whole bunch of other things.
Sadly the remaining points will have to re-equalise and friction raises it´s ugly head. The load split will be around 60/40 on a good day so the whole anchor will only hold 8.3kN (if it survives the extension that is).
With 3-point sliding anchors the issue is further complicated by what happens to the failed leg, in our testing we had loads of problems with the loose karabiner jamming in the sliding karabiners and ended up with greater load imbalance than one would expect. In some cases the entire force went onto one piece when the karabiners turned themselves into a fairly effective belay device.
Just Solo · · Colorado Springs · Joined Nov 2003 · Points: 80

Wow, who dug this one up from the dead? The last post prior to the new activity was 2009...

Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145

you can't put any number on mediocre placements

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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