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Trad climbing dangerous below 40 degrees?

Original Post
K R · · CA · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 50

I posted in a FB group asking if any trad climbers wanted to go out this weekend in MN when the temp will be 40 on Sunday. Someone replied "Trad is extremely dangerous below 40F. If you go this weekend, pls be careful." Is this true? I've been googling and can't find anyone saying that it is.

Ryan Watts · · Bishop, CA · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 25

No.

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974
Pontoon wrote:I posted in a FB group asking if any trad climbers wanted to go out this weekend in MN when the temp will be 40 on Sunday. Someone replied "Trad is extremely dangerous below 40F. If you go this weekend, pls be careful." Is this true? I've been googling and can't find anyone saying that it is.
It's dangerous above 40 degrees, so I assume it's dangerous below 40 too.
cjdrover · · Watertown, MA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 355

On the plus side, now you know which one of your Facebook friends is a complete and utter noob.

Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175

wait.

C, or F?

K R · · CA · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 50

Fahrenheit.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

Ask your friend for clarification so we can better ridicule them.

Boissal . · · Small Lake, UT · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 1,541

BAH! He's clearly not a slab climber, half of the granite around here is unclimbable above 40...

Jon Zucco · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 245
Pontoon wrote:Fahrenheit.
Wrong. It's actually above celsius and torturous. Trad climbing is substantially more torturous when it's above 40 degrees centigrade out.

Come on. Everyone knows that.
Aaron Olson · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 5

My buddy and I climbed Diedre this weekend in squamish and got snowed on. I think it was about 30 degrees and we had a great time. Put a hand warmer in your chalk bag, wear warm clothes and it will feel like climbing in the summer sun!

Jonny 5 · · Squamish BC · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 1,220
Aaron O wrote:My buddy and I climbed Diedre this weekend in squamish and got snowed on. I think it was about 30 degrees and we had a great time. Put a hand warmer in your chalk bag, wear warm clothes and it will feel like climbing in the summer sun!
Was it slippery? How about the traverse? Sorry for noob questions but I've followed 5/6 pitches and led the very last one just once. It looks adventurous even now after the rain has melted most of the snow off. Good work and I'm impressed :)
lucander · · Stone Ridge, NY · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 260

Maybe they were referring to shoulder season freeze/thaw cycles and associated rockfall hazards?

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Jonny 5 wrote: Was it slippery? How about the traverse? Sorry for noob questions but I've followed 5/6 pitches and led the very last one just once. It looks adventurous even now after the rain has melted most of the snow off. Good work and I'm impressed :)
deidre is often damp the last pitch unless its been dry out for a few days

if you want to do an apron route that you can get up even in the rain, do calculus ... its a solid crack from bottom to top

as to below 40F ... thats when you get the best friction on squamish granite ...

ive been out 20+ days since the start of the year, and its been generally around 40F or below and havent died yet ... even though i just got back from an 8 month off climbing due to injury

;)
EricF · · San Francisco · Joined May 2012 · Points: 120

I personally only go out when it is under 40 Kelvin, if you climb above 40 K you should probably give up and get a job at your local insurance company, I heard the sales department is hiring.

Dave006 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 0

Considering that the post says "I've never climbed trad before" and that the rock will be soaked if its above freezing, I would have to agree that in this case it would be dangerous.

K R · · CA · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 50

Dave006, interesting that you've seen another post I've made about climbing outside. In that post I learned that the amount of snow we have makes most climbing impractical. I wouldn't even want to toprope if the walls were soaked. The only reason I thought it might be doable is because I saw pictures of the winter wall from a couple weeks ago, and some routes were looking dry. That being said, I wouldn't want to climb trad at Red Wing, so I probably won't get to climb trad at all.

The FB post I'm actually referring to in this one isn't the one you've quoted here. In the one I'm referring to, a commenter goes on to say that last fall the temp dropped to below 40 degrees F, and he was told that trad climbing is extremely dangerous below 40 degrees and they should not climb that day. In the fall the walls probably would not have been the same as they are now in the spring. But you're right that I'm new at trad climbing. I'm trying to find someone experienced to go with to follow. I don't think me following someone would cause my inexperience to be dangerous. But I also don't plan to climb any wet walls, so it doesn't really matter.

Jeff Johnston · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 110
youtube.com/watch?v=CP-HQDE…

Advance to 1:57 and 5:33 (shows cam placement). It is way colder than 40 degrees in this Video.
Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175

Besides the possible loss of coordination/feeling in your hands and fingers, the temperature doesn't really play a role. It's really about what the crack looks like that you're placing gear in.

Is it dry? You're fine.

Does it have snow and maybe ice in it? Cams can be a poor/terrible choice then, but gents have been plugging nuts and hexes on cold icy alpine routes since before I was born, and you'll see guys carry some cams as well on these routes for choice placements.

Check out this sweet "alpine anchor" m'boy concocted last year - look below 40 degrees?

Aaron Olson · · Seattle, WA · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 5
Jonny 5 wrote: Was it slippery? How about the traverse? Sorry for noob questions but I've followed 5/6 pitches and led the very last one just once. It looks adventurous even now after the rain has melted most of the snow off. Good work and I'm impressed :)
It was definitely slippery in spots. The traverse was fine, but the cracks were filled with dirt and pine needles. The last pitch had a nice stream of ice just right of the overlap, which was where my feet were supposed to go! 2 scary moves and then it was fine after that. The exit move over the bulge was covered in ice too, but I got some bomber gear in and french-freed through it.
ZackBay · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 10

"Actually, it's well documented that below 40º F the aluminum alloy that is used for cam lobes will shrink, causing the placements to be loose and insecure. Moreover, the coefficient of friction between the rock and the cam lobe is decreased when they're cold. When you combine this with the fact that the nylon slings get more brittle when they're cold and it's absolutely true that trad climbing becomes more dangerous. In fact, research has conclusively proven that if you climb trad below 40º, yer gonna die."

Do you have a link to documentation?

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
ZackBay wrote:"Actually, it's well documented that below 40º F the aluminum alloy that is used for cam lobes will shrink, causing the placements to be loose and insecure. Moreover, the coefficient of friction between the rock and the cam lobe is decreased when they're cold. When you combine this with the fact that the nylon slings get more brittle when they're cold and it's absolutely true that trad climbing becomes more dangerous. In fact, research has conclusively proven that if you climb trad below 40º, yer gonna die." Do you have a link to documentation?

I think that business about the cold and lobes and nylon was all said in jest. Yep.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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