WTF...self belaying with a grigri 2?!!
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I lead rope-solo on the ATC guide using this setup: |
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On the not of anecdotal evidence of the dangers of solo climbing, there are quite a few examples of bad communication between climber/belayer which has resulted in pretty ugly accidents. I watched one of those at the Gunks where a climber was telling the belayer to lower him off a ledge, belayer didn't hear him and he stepped back with no one on the other end of the line for an 80ft decked fall. He survived, but it was more than a broken ankle. |
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BWIce wrote:If you're in this sport with the belief that you can be in control of, or manage all of the hazards of the mountains, then you misunderstand what climbing is. Even the best, most experienced folks out there die, and die often because the mountains do not hold that same belief. Don't misunderstand me, we can have better practices of risk management, but it always comes down to what objective hazards you are willing to accept. No matter what systems that you have in place, there will be objective hazards that are out of your control. That gentleman was right to laugh and say, "yeah, it's safe", meaning, it's a risk that he's willing to take. If you don't want to, then don't.Giant +1 |
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So I stand corrected! Me and my buddy went out and tried this on a 5.7 yesterday and it worked fine. I can see how this would work for someone if they were in a hurry to get a quick pump in and didn't have partner. |
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Nate_801 wrote:So I stand corrected! Me and my buddy went out and tried this on a 5.7 yesterday and it worked fine. I can see how this would work for someone if they were in a hurry to get a quick pump in and didn't have partner. It was pretty redundant having to pull the rope through my grigri2 and I can definitely see how it would be more interesting if we tried a harder route.What does this mean? |
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BWIce wrote:I lead rope-solo on the ATC guide using this setup: fcorpet.free.fr/Denis/Solo-…That reminded me of the old Bartlett system with a pulley and Prusik |
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Of course solo leading on a toothed pulley is a bad idea, but TRing on a toothed pulley is alright? A traxion is the preferred solo TR belay method, but no one is concerned with rope damage? Repeated small falls on the same spot on the rope at the crux. How small are the falls? Three feet? |
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Stiles wrote:Of course solo leading on a toothed pulley is a bad idea, but TRing on a toothed pulley is alright? A traxion is the preferred solo TR belay method, but no one is concerned with rope damage? Repeated small falls on the same spot on the rope at the crux. How small are the falls? Three feet? Is the solo TR rope not then used on lead, ever? I have a hard time being convinced, despite popularity, that falling at all on teeth won't hurt your rope.If the device is pulling correctly, there shouldn't be even three ft of slack in the rope. It might stretch, but all of fall should be from the stretch. Although the ascender feeds well in general, I'm pretty vigilant about keeping slack out of the rope when solo-TRing. Aid climbers use toothed devices to haul and ascend ropes all the time and the loads can be pretty big. They are certainly ascending the lead line, and I've definitely used a line to haul and also used it to lead. As long as the teeth don't slip, there is no damage to the sheath. If there is, you will be able to see it. If you have several ropes, it probably wouldn't hurt to keep a more hearty rope for solo TRing, but if you don't, just inspect your rope well before any use (you should be doing this anyway). |
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Stiles wrote:Of course solo leading on a toothed pulley is a bad idea, but TRing on a toothed pulley is alright? A traxion is the preferred solo TR belay method, but no one is concerned with rope damage? Repeated small falls on the same spot on the rope at the crux. How small are the falls? Three feet? Is the solo TR rope not then used on lead, ever? I have a hard time being convinced, despite popularity, that falling at all on teeth won't hurt your rope.If you keep slack out of the system, and especially if you use a chest harness to keep the device sitting high, fall forces shouldn't be much higher than just quickly sitting on an ascender while jugging. But if the rope somehow jams in the device and any slack builds up, the fall forces could feasibly be high enough to damage the rope, which is why its really important to down-climb or remove the slack immediately (and you'll definitely feel it if you are using a pack or something to weight the rope). But this is one reason why I like to use a non-toothed cinch as my primary device. |
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the bigger problem with toothed ascenders is that many of them can be deactivated ... which means you should always do a function check (weight it at the bottom) to make sure its engaged |
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BWIce wrote:I lead rope-solo on the ATC guide using this setup: fcorpet.free.fr/Denis/Solo-…DANGER: I used that setup on a couple alpine rope solo's because it was light, feeds and and seemed to lock up well. Intuitively sensing there was something dangerous about it I wasn't considering, I asked Colin Haley about it - he informed me that it will not catch in even a slightly inverted fall, which makes it extremely unreliable. Methods I've found work well: - A modified grigri rigged on a shoulder sling to keep it upright and feeding well (you can use this in conjunction with a ropeman on your leg loop to keep the weight of the rope from locking the grigri up). - a clove on a locker works surprisingly well with a bit of practice - Multiple backup knots tied every 10-20 feet or so, depending on the terrain. I untie each one as I climb - I hear the "silent partner" is bomber, works well in inverted falls, and feeds effortlessly. Kinda heavy but maybe it's security and function justify the weight. WARNING - There are many hazards with self-belay methods that are very, very, VERY difficult to foresee! Even if you do it correctly, it's always less reliable than a real belay and backups are a must. Consult experts and experiment before trusting your life or limb to any of the methods mentioned above. |
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To clarify (purely hypothetical, don't really plan on doing this), |
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Hubert Cumberdale wrote:To clarify (purely hypothetical, don't really plan on doing this), Are you guys talking about setting up a "normal" TR, tying yourself in to one side like normal, and then attaching a grigri to your harness and the other side of the rope, or are you talking about setting up a single fixed line and the only connection you have to the rope is You--GriGri--Rope (with backup knots)?The 2nd one. THe only time I have seen people use the first option was when setting routes in a gym where the rope was already up. |
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Would the first be "safe", though? I can think of some uses for it, like if a line had already been set up and you want to clean it. |
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Hubert Cumberdale wrote:Would the first be "safe", though? I can think of some uses for it, like if a line had already been set up and you want to clean it.Yes, it is just harder to pull the rope through. I'd still probably recommned a backup knot or some other backup in case the Gri did not engage. |
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Its not recommended by petzl what-so-ever. That being said it can be done relatively safely and you rarely hear of accidents related to self-belay with grigri's. |
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BBQ wrote: Good grief! Make a friend already! Put an ad in the newspaper! Put a thread on MP! Go to climbing singles dot com or Ashley Madison dot com for all I care. STOP BELAYING YOURSELF WITH A GRIGRI! There is no excuse to go climbing without a partner. Calm down. Been doing it for years. |
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Frank Cook wrote: Holy necro |
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Tamiban Gueterstan wrote: Bearbreeder heard that and is not happy. |
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I think a lot of people would be surprised at how safe LRS can be. There's the huge caveat that you're on your own of course, so breaking a leg or something suddenly becomes a much larger deal. However, without too much thought or trouble you can have a system that is extremely reliable. Yann Camus will teach you how to do it extremely safely with like eight different devices or something silly like that. LRS isn't some elite level of knowledge and it isn't some crazy risk (although many people who LRS choose systems that are much less safe for convenience and have a bit of a free soloing mentality). Like most things in climbing LRS is kinda what you make of it. As someone that is learning big wall climbing, aid climbing is approximately 100x as much shit to learn and is about 100x more intimidating, too. I think there's a weird mystique about LRS because there isn't much information about it so it's perceived as a weird dark art to most. There's really only a few concepts to understand (ground anchors, live and dead rope, backfeeding, cache loops/supporting the dead rope) and then you're pretty much off to the races. Any trad climber has already learned way more complicated and difficult concepts and probably regularly deals with more dangerous situations than rope soloing. If you need any evidence for this then examine the fact that I, a perennial gumby currently projecting a 5.9 and who thinks the local sport routes are unacceptably dangerous and thus refuses to lead many of them, climb lead rope solo. It's fun. You get to climb twice as many pitches in the same amount of time as you TR the pitch after you lead it, and you get to be alone in the mountains. More people should do it. |