How do you decide if a runout is worth the risk?

Russ Keane wrote:doligo- You're not familiar with the concept that a lead climber finishes the climb? Don't get on it if you can't complete it. Obviously safety comes first, and if need be you lower down off bail biners. I get that. But it's not ideal and it's bad form.

To me this is bananas. I don't really sport climb, and I hope this rule is limited to that flavor of climbing. Still, if you're onsighting something, you have no idea if you can climb it. IMHO, downclimbing is a key skill. I'll jump on all kinds of stuff because I know if I get in over my head, I'll bail. I think a "don't get on what you can't finish" would really limit my development as a climber.

^^I agree!

Russ Keane wrote:doligo- You're not familiar with the concept that a lead climber finishes the climb? Don't get on it if you can't complete it. Obviously safety comes first, and if need be you lower down off bail biners. I get that. But it's not ideal and it's bad form.

Obviously it's "not ideal", but I couldn't disagree more as far as it being bad form. I think that all-or-nothing attitude portrays this as something far more serious and bold than it is. We're talking about sport climbing and we're ultimately out there to have fun. Don't limit yourself by only getting on something you're certain you can top, and don't think that you're displaying "bad form" if you make a safe/conservative choice when it comes down to it.

butters wrote:think about why you started climbing and why you continue to enjoy it. What motivates you? is it a love-based motivation that drives you to climb?

I climb because I love it. If I'm proving anything, it's to myself and not to other people. The confidence provided by my own accomplishments is my reward, and also what fuels me to keep going.
I want to lower off a route thinking, "Holy shit, that might have been a tad scary but it felt so good to send it." Not "Holy shit, I'm going to be shaking and miserable for the next few hours because I was so scared."

Russ Keane wrote:doligo- You're not familiar with the concept that a lead climber finishes the climb? Don't get on it if you can't complete it. Obviously safety comes first, and if need be you lower down off bail biners. I get that. But it's not ideal and it's bad form.

I'm guessing from this that you are

a. A troll

or

B. Suck at rock climbing.

I'd be interested to find out which.

Short Beta wrote: I would rather have someone go up and retrieve my gear than to risk serious injury by throwing myself at the first runout i see despite my lack of experience. There's no ego here. I want to push myself, not kill myself.

Sounds like part of the problem is that you think you will get injured if you fall on a runout. There's nothing wrong with taking a big fall. If anything, as long as you don't hit a ledge or the ground, I think big whippers are good for your climbing development.

adam brink wrote: Sounds like part of the problem is that you think you will get injured if you fall on a runout. There's nothing wrong with taking a big fall. If anything, as long as you don't hit a ledge or the ground, I think big whippers are good for your climbing development.

Definitely a good point. Some days in the gym, I'll get on the overhanging wall and just take some big falls if I feel shaky that day. However, outdoors, it is sometimes hard for me to tell whether or not the potential whipper would be dangerous. Call me a N00b I guess. It's still a learning process for me.

To the OP, I'm glad you climb with people who wouldn't push you past what you're comfortable with. The motivation to climb something should come from you. That being said, as I started to lead I backed off of A LOT of climbs and ultimately that destroyed my lead head. I started to see monsters at every longish gear spacing and my fiends were willing to pick up my slack. It's taken me many years to build it back and ultimately I realized most of the "runout" I saw was actually safe (and fun) falling.

Like others have said, as you climb more and are able to easily read sequences and route difficulty the question of "is this safe?" will get easier to answer.

Best of luck!

"I'm guessing from this that you are

a. A troll

or

B. Suck at rock climbing.

I'd be interested to find out which."

Wow, take it easy. It's called differing opinions. There are plenty of climbers who find unfinished leads a bad idea. Not only is it unsafe, but you leave gear-- and sometimes you don't get it back. What is the problem with committment to finish what you start? Sure it's not always going to happen, but it's a good rule of thumb. It's pretty dangerous to end up 3/4 of the way up a climb on lead, above your last pro/bolt, and get freaked and have to figure out how to bail. Much better to have the mindset that you are going to finish the route -- makes you a better climber and forces you to work through the difficulties.

Take it easy on the insults, if you don't mind.

Russ Keane wrote:get freaked and have to figure out how to bail

Figure out how to bail? Here, let me explain: take the fall, lower to the ground, walk off. I'll spare you the details about how to retrieve the last draw to only lose a biner or how to manage if you're past the halfway mark of your rope

Unfinished leads a bad idea? It is unsafe and you leave gear? It isn't a bad idea if it avoids a trip to the ER or dragging a bunch of volunteers out to retrieve your dead or broken body.

Bad form? Gear and ego are cheap.

Your photo makes me think you are too young to have much of a clue so you are forgiven.

At 5'3", I sympathize with one problem of being short. Occasionally I can't reach the bolt that's intended to protect a hard move. In that case, if I can't place something to protect the move, I may back off.

Get and read the book, Rock Warrior's Way or the condensed version 'Espresso Lessons' by Arno Ilgner. Way better than this forum. warriorsway.com/

Russ Keane wrote: Wow, take it easy. It's called differing opinions.

No, it's called you're an obvious n00b trying to look like you're not.

Russ Keane wrote:There are plenty of climbers who find unfinished leads a bad idea.

Only for pride and the loss of the occasional piece of gear.

Russ Keane wrote:Not only is it unsafe, but you leave gear-- and sometimes you don't get it back.

How is getting lowered off unsafe?

Russ Keane wrote:Take it easy on the insults, if you don't mind.

No one would be insulting you if you weren't all holier than thou with your n00berific advice. This isn't the first thread you've interjected into with some wild fantasy of "the way things are"- and been totally wrong. You're new, you generally don't know wtf you're talking about, and it's obvious to just about everyone but you. That's why there are multiple experienced climbers in this thread giving you shit. But keep on poking your n00blet chest out. Apparently it has some benefit for you or you wouldn't keep doing it. Either that, or you just don't know that you don't know enough to be commenting, which is usually the case with MP interweb n00blets.

Russ Keane wrote:"I'm guessing from this that you are a. A troll or B. Suck at rock climbing. I'd be interested to find out which." Wow, take it easy. It's called differing opinions. There are plenty of climbers who find unfinished leads a bad idea. Not only is it unsafe, but you leave gear-- and sometimes you don't get it back. What is the problem with committment to finish what you start? Sure it's not always going to happen, but it's a good rule of thumb. It's pretty dangerous to end up 3/4 of the way up a climb on lead, above your last pro/bolt, and get freaked and have to figure out how to bail. Much better to have the mindset that you are going to finish the route -- makes you a better climber and forces you to work through the difficulties. Take it easy on the insults, if you don't mind.

That wasn't intended to be an insult. Sucking at climbing doesn't mean you're a bad person or less valuable as a human, it's intrinsically a meaningless activity. Almost everyone on these boards sucks at climbing, I don't think Ondra or Sharma spend much time here. However, I wanted to make it clear that your attitude is going to be a major impediment to your own personal improvement. Going for it when you don't know if you'll be able to succeed is one of the best ways to learn and get stronger as a climber.

Russ Keane wrote:"I'm guessing from this that you are a. A troll or B. Suck at rock climbing. I'd be interested to find out which." Wow, take it easy. It's called differing opinions. There are plenty of climbers who find unfinished leads a bad idea. Not only is it unsafe, but you leave gear-- and sometimes you don't get it back. What is the problem with committment to finish what you start? Sure it's not always going to happen, but it's a good rule of thumb. It's pretty dangerous to end up 3/4 of the way up a climb on lead, above your last pro/bolt, and get freaked and have to figure out how to bail. Much better to have the mindset that you are going to finish the route -- makes you a better climber and forces you to work through the difficulties. Take it easy on the insults, if you don't mind.

Maybe if you actually got on something hard every once in awhile you wouldn't think V0 was a difficult grade

Thank you mountain project for the entertainment. Way better than spreadsheets at work.

How about a new thread topic, "how do decide if a bold semi-informed internet post is worth the risk?".--not targeted at the OP.

Hey at least this isn't a post about "chalk bag zippers."......

Short Beta, I wasn't trying to take a shot at you. I think your post was valid, and this forum is a good place to learn. I did the same thing.

Honestly, I'm an older guy that started later in life, so I don't pull hard at all compared to some of these guys/gals.

Along with that, I climb for fun, so my risk tolerance is low. I try to keep the big picture in mind. Nothing I'm potentially going to send is worth a trip to the hospital.

Have fun, live long and prosper.

Cheers.