I don't know jack about Pitons
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Well, I get the basics. It's a pin that you pound into a crack. I've clipped them, I've removed them, and followed climbers who have placed them. |
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Michael C wrote:more serious rock faces that might not take cams and stoppers,nowadays we use bolts. pins DO have and have had their place. they were the reason many aid climbs were able to go free, as they manufactured the crack for locks and clean pro. Michael C wrote:There's not too much info out there on using pitons, knifeblades, and peckers though.they have pretty much become a lost art/craft as its not sustainable having said all that, i think learning the correct way to remove them is more important than how to place them. |
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"They have pretty much become a lost art"? |
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Ryan N wrote:There's plenty of world class routes in Yosemite that require sometimes extensive pin racks.thats why i said 'pretty much'. the percentage of climbers doing those routes is pretty small |
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Where I live bolts are sort of frowned upon and really only installed as a last resort or on very popular lines to save trees. Personally, I wouldn't place a bolt unless I was putting up a new line or got permission from park services/land owners/local community for an established route that might be better off with a bolt or bolts. But that's a whole other discussion and I don't want the topic going in that direction. |
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I don't use them but I know there are a few mixed routes north of me that require pins on the sketch rock sections that not really have any other options for pro. |
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I have placed quite few on f/a's and think pins still have a place. it's mostly an experience thing..find some crap rock and start. |
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like i said, they do have their place... |
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Anyone who spends time in the Canadian Rockies knows that pitons are used extensively, to the point that they are still used MORE than cams and nuts on certain routes. |
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I know Micheal, and one of the areas we climb in do indeed have nailing routes there, at least as described by the guidebook. Most of these probably haven't seen an ascent in many years, but bolting in that area is discouraged by the local community and technically prohibited by the parks service. |
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btw +1 for the term 'pegging' Larry S wrote:I know Micheal, and one of the areas we climb in does indeed have nailing routes there, at least as described by the guidebook. Most of these probably haven't seen an ascent in many years, but bolting in that area is discouraged by the local community and technically prohibited by the parks service.yeah, dont put a bolt in where you shouldnt |
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Darren Mabe wrote:this: rescuedynamics.ca/articles/…Ah, thanks! Something like this is what I was looking for. |
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We pull tested loads (over 100) of pitons a few years ago as part of a project on in-situ gear for the BMC, basically you beat the shit out of them! |
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Well, don't simply beat the shit out of it. I'm sure I've placed well over 3000 pitons and an intelligently placed pin will hold better than a pin that has had the shit beat out of it any day. |
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or the old bridwell "hit it once" method from the first Nose in a Day |
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Sure do, did the second ascent of it, on hexes! |
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Mark Hudson, |
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It's H U D O N, but anyway... |
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Pitoncraft is an art. |
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Mark Hudon wrote:It's H U D O N, but anyway... If the crack is filled with sand or dirt the pin will ring and yet fall right out also. "Dropping" your hammerhead onto the pin, and if it "bouncing" off was also a sign of a good pin. I've certainly placed pins that didn't ring, and were not beaten to death, that were bomber. In my experience, more often that not, a ringing pin is a good pin. BITD, I've done hanging belays and bivy's on those pins and they certainly didn't come out easily when the time came to remove them either. Although, I guess, I'm not talking about fixing pins for life. I'm talking about wall climbing with pins where they have to be placed quickly and them removed as quickly.The piton will ring as you beat it in but that the maximum holding power is when the pitch stops rising is a bit of a myth, we could get nearly double the holding power by changing to a sledge hammer and just hammering until nothing moved any more. The pitch of the ringing has more to do with the type and material of the piton and the lightness of the hammer than any intrinsic holding power, with a 14lb sledge pitons don´t "ring" any more but for sure they go further in and are stronger. The real problems start once you move away from chrome-moly pegs and granite and into the fairly common soft pegs and limestone which is often the combination in Europe. With the much lighter hammer or an ice tool hammer compared with a wall hammer and there really isn´t any answer other than to beat the shit out of it if you are expecting the piton to function as either protection or as a belay. Ease of removal is not going to be a consideration, either deliberate or accidental. A hard steel piton in an ideal mechanical placement like a horizontal needs little hammering to be bomber, a soft-steel blade driven upwards under a roof wants to be hammer-welded in place to be of any real use! |