Multi Pitch Question Regarding Second

So this is a noob question, and I'm guessing the answer is "it depends." But: does the second normally climb up or does the second normally use an ascender to get up the pitch faster? In the case of using the ascender, I would expect the pair may want to trade leads.

I believe either is possible, but I'm curious what's normal in the world of multi pitch (let's say 6-14 pitches) climbing.

If the answer is that it truly depends, does it change matters if the goal is to complete the free climb in a day?

The second climbing the pitch is much more common in normal free climbing situations. The second jugging the line comes more often during aid/bigwall climbing, although I have done this during some climbs (alpine or mixed aid/free) where the second had to carry more than they were able to free climb with and when hauling was not a good option. Since this question is in the aid/bigwall forum, I'll assume this is what you're talking about, and in that case the second jugs more often than not. If the goal is to free climb a wall in a day that is normally aided, then I guess it would depend on whether both parties were capable of free all the pitches or if you might want to jug pitches to conserve energy.

Usually when you see people using ascenders on second it's ether for speed or the pitch might be too hard to free climb. If you're doing a 6-15 pitch climb that's within both climbers ability to free climb you really shouldn't need to have the second ascend with a device. I guess if you we're really worried about time, for whatever reason, you could have them do that though. It would just take the fun out of it.

Thanks guys, this makes perfect sense. I saw some guys in a video doing a speed run with the second using a jumar, so I wondered if that was common or not. What made me wonder whether it'd be weird or not is because one of my to-do routes (which won't happen for years I'm sure) is a 1,200 ft climb rated 5.8. The difficulty isn't bad, but it's a relatively long approach, and it's important to summit before noon. So I'm guessing it would depend on how early we start and how easy the climbing seems. If the ascender is faster, that may be the way to go. Half the pitches on a 1,200 ft climb is still a lot of climbing.

Kyle Robson wrote:Thanks guys, this makes perfect sense. I saw some guys in a video doing a speed run with the second using a jumar, so I wondered if that was common or not. What made me wonder whether it'd be weird or not is because one of my to-do routes (which won't happen for years I'm sure) is a 1,200 ft climb rated 5.8. The difficulty isn't bad, but it's a relatively long approach, and it's important to summit before noon. So I'm guessing it would depend on how early we start and how easy the climbing seems. If the ascender is faster, that may be the way to go. Half the pitches on a 1,200 ft climb is still a lot of climbing.

Almost nobody would use ascenders on a climb of that length and difficulty. 1200 ft of 5.8 is not all that long in the scheme of length. You should be able to move much faster and more safely without ascenders. Terrain that easy is also often very low angle and blocky, which could often mean that the rope is running over lots of blocks/ledges/corners, making ascending a rope less safe (think rope rubbing on edges). If doing this in a day (should not be hard) then you won't have to cary much, so the and can climb unburdened and fast. The approach may be long but you can do that in the dark or spend the night at th base of the climb.

I'm assuming said 1200 ft 5.8 with a long approach is in the mountains somewhere, in which case it should be enough below your limit that you can cruise it pretty quickly and ascenders would only marginally speed things up.

If you don't think you'll cruise it, it might be a good idea to hold off until you can. You will need to move fast (as you mentioned) and falling is not really an option. Protection in the mountains can sometimes be dubious and even a small injury like a sprained ankle can turn into a major epic 1000 feet off the deck with talus of talks fields between you and cell phone reception.

Sorry if you already thought of this, but figured it was worth mentioning in case not.

Thanks, I had a slight suspicion an ascender might not work well in an alpine environment due to the fact that yes it is slabby in parts.

Yeah, I can climb 5.8 fast, and I'm planning to do this climb in 1.5 or 2.5 years. Unless I start getting worse at climbing, I think difficulty wise I'll be totally fine.

I hate to be that guy but,
Find a mentor. Be a second. Always offer your rope, gear, and a strong back to carry it all.
With a good mentor, these questions will answer themselves.
Have fun, climb smart, and be safe.
-Mackley.

if you're going in the mountains, don't haul ascenders. go light, go fast. an atc guide or gri gri paired with a tibloc will suffice. if it's a short crux, french free that thing and keep moving.

get an alpine start, make any 3,4,easy 5th approach and be on route at sunrise. if your 1st few pitches are easy....i'm assuming that with a 5.8 crux pitch there should be plenty of easy 5th you could do via headlamp.

it sounds like you're being pretty logical about it. it also sounds like you could use some mileage with a mentor to help you smooth your shit up. when you're ready for the climb, remember your safety margins and don't be dumb. people die on mountains

good luck

Most parties on the RNWF of Half Dome have the second jug. Most NIAD parties as well.

Both considered big walls, but seem to be getting "smaller" with each passing year.

Sirius, that's cool to know. I guess it probably varies a lot from wall to wall as each place is different and as different areas have differing mindsets/ethics.

Yeah thanks for the cautionary words. My gf thinks the summer after next may be too soon, and it may be. I plan to get some multipitch mileage in before then. The tough part is doing so as a Minnesotan as we have very little multipitch and no high altitude or big walls.

I've met a person or two who likes to take trips and do all varieties of climbing. The goal is to find someone who will go with me to some easier climbs first (possibly in the ear or years prior). I figure an easy approach on the warm side of a wall will be a good start.

unless aid climbing is expected to be used, I never or my partner will never carry jugs. there is no reason to ever use those unless it is an aid climb or your partner is simply there to belay. 6-14 pitches should never take longer than a day. plan for 45mins a pitch for both you and your partner, practice change overs and move fast. most of your wasted time is at belays, not on the actual climbing. 5-7 mins at a belay over 14 pitches adds up to 1-1.75 hrs. thats a lot of time not doing anything. get that dialed and focus on moving fast. very rarely will jumaring be faster if both people in the group are able to free climb.

Maybe if we knew what you are planning to climb, there would be some better beta on approach, bailing, etc. However what has already been said will still stand as your best advice. Research your climb, are there any linkable pitches, are there fixed or natural anchors, get a good topo, climb with a partner you are familiar and comfortable with, get your belay changeovers dialed and fast, have some knowledge of bailing and self rescue. But if the crux is 5.8 you should be able to blast through that without much problem. That length climb should be able to be finished in a day but a few glitches in your system could quickly put you hanging on the wall in the dark (bring a headlamp just in case). All and all it sounds like a fun climb if you are prepared.

Again, would you be willing to share the name of the climb?

Photocodo

photocodo, I was wondering in general, although for the climb that made me first think about it, it's the North Ridge of Grand Teton. There can be afternoon thunderstorms, so people advise sumitting and starting down by noon. Due to the possibility of thunderstorms and the somewhat lengthy approach, I was wondering if ascenders might be faster or necessary to get the climb done in time. From the sounds of it, no it won't be faster to use ascenders, and it might only be realistic to even use them on the more vertical pitches. In any case, this route is a ways out in my future. I have a lot to learn... This thread has been helpful--definitely a step towards not being a total noob.

mountainproject.com/v/north… is the link for the route.