Ice climbing in the Olympics

slim wrote: why do we need to legitimize climbing as a sport?

Slim, you're not using your imagination. Just think about how much we could grow the foundational elements of climbing such as the line at the base of the bastille crack or the crowds at canal zone!

Mark E Dixon wrote: A lot of us are driven climbers and still don't find comps entertaining to watch. Don't get me wrong, I have friends who compete and I'd love to see them get wider recognition, but I don't think the benefits outweigh the harm to the rest of us. And where do you live? The old "climbers are reckless crazies" image just doesn't seem to operate anymore, as far as I can see. I mean, people do multiple flips on their snowmobiles. That's way crazier than anything done by climbers. Regardless, as long as land managers accept climbing as valid, I don't care what the general public thinks.

That's fine if you don't like watching them, it's not for everyone. You just asked if anyone does and I answered.

I live in Ontario and many land managers don't view climbing as a valid activity. I'm very happy that you don't have to deal with that issue because it sucks when you do.

beccs wrote: That's fine if you don't like watching them, it's not for everyone. You just asked if anyone does and I answered. I live in Ontario and many land managers don't view climbing as a valid activity. I'm very happy that you don't have to deal with that issue because it sucks when you do.

I'm surprised to hear that Canadians don't embrace ice climbing.

I used to climb at Willoughby and we'd look out at the ice fisherman and think "those guys are crazy fools" and I'm sure they were looking up at us thinking "those guys are crazy fools."

Mark E Dixon wrote: So how does that make my climbing life better? I pay my own way, as do most climbers. My genetics are what they are, too late to change that. Research in climbing training may be slightly useful, but in the long run, whether I eke out a few letter grades won't affect my enjoyment significantly. More climbers might equal a stronger voice for access, but also equals more impact. It isn't clear to me that folks who don't climb until the sport is legitimized are really going to have the same values as those who climb now. Much less those who have been climbing since BITD. I see how being in the Olympics helps those who compete or those who work in the climbing industry. But I don't see how it helps the rest of us.

I wasn't talking about average recreational climbers. How does competition figure skating help average recreational ice skaters for that matter? Not much. It helps, however, funding rinks and training programs in certain geographic centers and inspire youth.

BTW, the competition climbing and outdoor climbing circuits rarely overlap. A lot of climbers who regularly do the World Cup circuit rarely say compete in more outdoor events like the Ouray Ice Fest. Same goes for rock climbing, just read this interview by Sasha DiGiulian.

Speaking of figure skating, I can't believe they doubled the amount of figure skating at this Olympics. Just what we need - 10 more events (masked as one) of the most boring winter sports.

beccs wrote: That's fine if you don't like watching them, it's not for everyone. You just asked if anyone does and I answered. I live in Ontario and many land managers don't view climbing as a valid activity. I'm very happy that you don't have to deal with that issue because it sucks when you do.

I don't believe anybody said we don't have a problem with access in the states, but I highly doubt land managers that don't want people climbing on their land will change their minds just because it made the Olympics. I also don't believe the issue is land managers don't view climbing as a "valid activity", Its either they think they are at risk if someone gets hurt or they don't want climbers damaging their property....

taylor januskiewiecz wrote: If anything wouldn't it just turn more people on to climbing, ultimately shutting down access to more crags due to more traffic?

Go climb anywhere in Europe and realize just how silly this sounds.

Brad M wrote: Go climb anywhere in Europe and realize just how silly this sounds.

Actually, I think that the growing popularity of climbing might cause more access issues than it solves.

Europe doesn't have the same access issues as the states. They have a very different outlook on land ownership, usage and the conservation of nature. I think a more realistic look at the future of US climbing is the RRG. The Roadside Crag and a few other great cliffs were closed due to overuse and the resulting environmental impact. To ensure access, climber supported organizations have had to buy land,

Climbing is popular and the number of people who enjoy climbing is going to increase. That is a fact with which we have to deal. I am not sure that growing the "sport" of climbing is going to help climbers deal with access issues, and that it might have some unintended negative consequences.

All that being said, I know that getting ice climbing into the Olympics is a big deal for guys like beccs. Cheers! I hope that the competition goes well and that the exposure creates all the positive outcomes you hope for.

Brad M wrote: Go climb anywhere in Europe and realize just how silly this sounds.

I don't think it sounds silly at all.

Brad M wrote:Shaun White dropped out because he's a crap snowboarder on anything other than a halfpipe.

Shaun white four-peated in X Games Slopestyle: 2003-2006, and 2009. (Silver in 2002)

Spencer Dries wrote: Shaun white four-peated in X Games Slopestyle: 2003-2006, and 2009. (Silver in 2002)

AND let's leave the #%^%$ X games as the place for goofy footed playtime games like that. NOT for the REAL trational talent laden Olympic games of history..Don't see Olympians trying to foist Oly sports into the X game...leave them separate please...How about we encourage kids today to take up an Olympic sport talent and refine that skill for country, pride and competion under the Olympic rings?

…and there goes the thread.

Woodchuck ATC wrote: ... the REAL trational talent laden Olympic games of history..

yes, talent-laden historic sports of Olympiads past such as croquet and tug-of-war... I'm not sure the games is or has ever been a paragon of integrity.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olymp…

Actually, I would be way more engaged in the Olympics if they brought tug-of-war back. Combine that with some sort of precarious American-Gladiator-style elevated platform, I mean the possibilities here are endless. Forget about climbing! Just think what we could do if we got rid of the three equestrian "sports" and freed up three slots that no one but the participants' family tunes in for...

Dave Alie wrote: yes, talent-laden historic sports of Olympiads past such as croquet and tug-of-war... I'm not sure the games is or has ever been a paragon of integrity. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olymp… Actually, I would be way more engaged in the Olympics if they brought tug-of-war back. Combine that with some sort of precarious American-Gladiator-style elevated platform, I mean the possibilities here are endless. Forget about climbing! Just think what we could do if we got rid of the three equestrian "sports" and freed up three slots that no one but the participants' family tunes in for...

Naw,,don't bring in summer games chaos of changing events. .THAT's another story alone. Since the inception of the winter games, they have revolved around skiing , skating and sledding type of events. Why not get youth interested in those original events I'm saying, insted of trying to fit the events to the present public perception (meaning TV $$$$ to be made) of what is popular. Live and learn history with respect for what has been. Not change the games to fit the latest fad on the slopes to gain TV audience and sell commercials. The Nordic events for example, continue to be a family and national tradition of the Scandanavian countries, cuz they have pride in them , excel in them, and usually take alot of medals in them. Problem is our 'young' country didn't import the skiing and winter sports here with gusto, until after WWII, and that was only because all the great ski instructors, designers, resort owners, ski patrollers and such were Europeans who fled their countries before, during, or right after the war to create the US ski industry. Thank you 10th Mt.Division for all their influence on skiing here in the US. At least 'ballet' skiing of 70's has disappeared from the slopes!

The Winter Olympics are nothing more than a celebration of affluent children doing their affluent hobbies. With a few exceptions, most of which are dominated by the Scandinavians

Woodchuck ATC wrote: Why not get youth interested in those original events I'm saying, insted of trying to fit the events to the present public perception (meaning TV $$$$ to be made) of what is popular. Live and learn history with respect for what has been.

Snark aside, I do understand your point about preserving historical continuity, etc. I think one of the challenges with maintaining youth interest in certain events/sports is that they're not widely practiced (who had a bobsled team at their highschool?) and the games only happen ever four years- not exactly keeping the pot of youthful interest boiling. In that environment, trying to get your kids excited about esoteric things like curling or the luge seems like swimming uphill. Those definitely weren't sports that kids just "fell into" in the way of soccer, baseball, or football when I was a kid.

Kind of a rhetorical question, but if the only reason a sport is still practiced is because it's in the Olympics, maybe it's time to let that sport fade away?

I would like to watch climbing in the olympics, I don't see the big deal?

I've been snowboarding for 18 years and when everyone started complaining about it going "mainstream" or "corporate" I was still having fun snowboarding while they over-though it.

More climbers = more partners for where I live, no overcrowding problem here so I can't identify with that angle.

Olympics = people who like competition competing at things for us to watch. I love it

Mark E Dixon wrote:Kind of a rhetorical question, but if the only reason a sport is still practiced is because it's in the Olympics, maybe it's time to let that sport fade away?

But that's just the problem, saying 'fuk the old style Olympics'. The 20th century was certainly the era of the great Olympiads, with TV coming along by the 60' games to become a fine tradition, be it summer games or the more recent winter games.
Why don't we just fuk over baseball too, and make it much more interesting game due to boredom among kids today who choose basketball and football over it? Cuz it's Americas Sport, a tradition. So we dont mess with it ( ok, the DH did kinda change things). But overall, even when I was 40 years younger, I respected and thought highly of those winter Olympic sports, of the devotion people had to some sport that was kinda wierd, and not found around the home. One that you admired the few, the proud who took it upon themselves to hurl down a waxed up grass slope in summer to jump or bobsled, or travel to foreign lands to train.
Much could be said back then for climbing too as an 'outcast individiual event, much like surfers of the late 50's and early 60's.. I was drawn to the 'individual' sports in my life, (not the overblown testosterone driven team sports full of hidden homo-erotic butt grabing, towel slapping showers and perverse initiations that coaches turned their backs upon for decades.) I was a gymnast, an individual competitor, a pole vaulter, a downhill racer with my own personal goals and rewards, and finally a climber.
I don't enjoy the 'new' events, even if they are now the main ones that the US gets medals in...we've lost our focus on the origins of the winter sports as set up back in the thirties when winter games began.

NC Rock Climber wrote: I think a more realistic look at the future of US climbing is the RRG. The Roadside Crag and a few other great cliffs were closed due to overuse and the resulting environmental impact.

Lol because the rrg is a redneck backwater. Euro crags are busy and generate serious tourist cash for the local townships. THAT is how you keep crags open.

Mark E Dixon wrote:I see how being in the Olympics helps those who compete or those who work in the climbing industry. But I don't see how it helps the rest of us.

Bingo. Nailed it Mark. So did the OP.

For the rest of you advocating a bigger audience and catapulting climbing into the "mainstream"- wtfever that is these days- When was the last time your whole trip was ruined because of access issues caused by climbing not being popular enough and you couldn't go somewhere else as an "option B"? I'm guessing never. Now, when was the last time your day was ruined because of some dipshit that either didn't know climbing enough to be doing it, or didn't know etiquette enough to be doing it outside amongst others that did know etiquette?

The latter I'm guessing- 100% of the time.

It also irks me when pros say shit like this. Yeah, you climb 5.14d and have sponsorships that send you anywhere you want so of course you don't give a shit if the hoardes descend upon someone's local gem, or local shitpile for that matter.

Fuck climbing in the olympics. I hope it never goes in. I just said what 90% of us were thinking anyway.