Adding Bolts between runouts

Jared Moore wrote:So, I am wondering...what are the ethics of adding a bolt in between large runouts? Is it a bad thing to make a route safer for someone to try, so that the risk of taking a bad whipper or even decking isn't as high? I realize that some climbs are so easy and putting bolts there can sometimes be silly, however, why have runouts on 10s or harder? I would appreciate only serious constructive comments...

Why would you want to waste drill time putting bolts into a pre-existing climb? If you have a drill and think bolt protected routes good, why not just use the drill time to put up some new routes and leave the community with something new.

David Coley wrote: Why would you want to waste drill time putting bolts into a pre-existing climb? If you have a drill and think bolt protected routes good, why not just use the drill time to put up some new routes and leave the community with something new.

some of us think of it as being similar to fixing up an old house or a car, sometimes they get so run down and beat up they have absolutely no value anymore. Whats the use of a house that nobody can live in or a car that cant be driven?

when you live in a place that has a ton of routes that either havent been led in 25 years or never were and were just claimed by someone who toproped it first you might understand. some of us consider it unlocking the potential.

I wonder why this thread keeps getting buried on page 3?

Locker wrote: From what I can see, more of us think of it as fucking up someone else's FA.

hmm, from what I have got out of this thread is that most of us agree that a route that hasnt been touched in X amount of years is fair game.

it is confusing with all deletions going on I'll admit.

"hmm, from what I have got out of this thread is that most of us agree that a route that hasnt been touched in X amount of years is fair game." said Mobes

Locker replied- My "from what I can see" is overall, and not just related to this thread. This subject has gotten pretty old by now and the majority of climbers appear to lean more towards leaving things as they are. Again, this is my observation. I have not OCD'd and done any actual counting. There are very few here on this thread. Not IMO representational of the "Climbing community" as a whole.

Don't get me wrong, I like adventure climbing and would like to see the opportunity preserved. But unless adventure climbers stop falling back on "tradition" and threats and start convincing the tsunami of new climbers of the value of boldness, the future is with Mobes and retrobolting.

chills wrote:By NC Rock Climber From The Oven, AKA Phoenix 11 mins ago Adding bolts is totally fine. Last time I checked there is no law anywhere that gives the FA any type of ownership or control over the rock just because they were there first. Others will strongly disagree and threaten you with physical violence and scorn for being a retro-bolting pussy. Regardless, the world will continue to turn and Eva Mendes will be smoking hot for at least another 5 years. It is called respect something a stick clipping bolt crusher like you may never understand... Spend some time on some classic trad routes before you disregard the right of the FA party to disagree with some pussy coming in and rap bolting Their once classic traditional mind control test piece!!! Hey nc rock climber if you ever come to the front range I would spend most of my time in bocan plenty of safe grid bolted bullshit for you In there

Can we stop saying "pussy"? As a proud pussy owning individual, I would like to say I've been on some run out, fall and you die harder than bruce willis bullshit and and my vagina really neither helped nor hindered in that regard. Or maybe I'm wrong and it's just my crazy estrogen levels talking! Just thought I would represent my biological lady parts. Call me a feminazi as you will.

Chrissy wrote: Can we stop saying "pussy"? As a proud pussy owning individual, I would like to say I've been on some run out, fall and you die harder than bruce willis bullshit and and my vagina really neither helped nor hindered in that regard. Or maybe I'm wrong and it's just my crazy estrogen levels talking! Just thought I would represent my biological lady parts. Call me a feminazi as you will.

Thank you Chrissy.
This made my morning.
You got papers for that beaver there pardner? :)

Locker wrote:Vagina sounds so... Medical. EDITED: "Dude is a dick!" "Fucker is a total dickhead!" "Dickwad!" Funny how the words are used. ;-)

hate going down this road but.... just because some people do one thing, doesn't make the other excusable. Let's just all agree to use the word "asshole" instead. Everyone's got an asshole

Locker wrote:"hmm, the majority of climbers appear to lean more towards leaving things as they are. Again, this is my observation. I have not OCD'd and done any actual counting. There are very few here on this thread. Not IMO representational of the "Climbing community" as a whole.

Nope, there has just been a ton of editorializing by the admins to make it seem so.

It might be true that the majority of old trad climbers lean more towards leaving things the way they are, but old people with conservative views is nothing new.

If you could count you would see that no majority exists.

And you really should learn how to use the quote feature someday.

J Q wrote: Nope, there has just been a ton of editorializing by the admins to make it seem so.

Oh yeah, right. I am sure the moderators are removing posts with personal attacks, excessively vulgar, racist, homophobic or non-relevant spam trolling etc to push an agenda in a retrobolting discussion. What a tool comment.

MJMobes, how about coming up with some real evidence before you keep repeating that. I haven't seen anything to substantiate what you are claiming, and I doubt you are either, besides your own projection.

How about taking your nice little personal feuds somewhere else instead of spreading your incontinence all over the boards, please.

There is one rule: "Don't be a jerk"

Taken sides? In what? I think often when people piss and moan about removed posts they mistake the reason willfully or by accident.

By the way, there is very little moderation of this board usually. You might notice it when a thread has deteriorated into personal attacks and people get all heated. If you want to keep the threads coherent, then make an effort to not 'jerkify' your posts and remember that it is a public board with an audience of varied sensibilities.

edit- Looks like MJMobes pulled his posts I was answering. I'll leave this since some of it is relevant in a general way.

M Sprague wrote:There is one rule: "Don't be a jerk"

so deleting people posts that were not jerky at all, calling people tools and accusing people of pissing their pants(without evidence) is cool for admins now huh?

ballcupping is alive and well

M Sprague wrote: Oh yeah, right. I am sure the moderators are removing posts with personal attacks, excessively vulgar, racist, homophobic or non-relevant spam trolling etc to push an agenda in a retrobolting discussion. What a tool comment.

Your comments are just a ridiculous as mine. There are plenty of personal attack left up in this thread, including yours. You aren't pulling the posts calling young climbers pussies and calling for violence. You are pulling the retorts, which makes you guilty of what I accuse. There is such a thing as objectivity, and you lost that feature months ago.

If you go back and pull the myriad of nasty comments towards young pussy sport climbers you will buy an ounce of credibility. Until then, it takes a tool to know a tool, mr. tool.

Or you could just delete my opinion because you disagree, which is what we all expect at this point.

Why are you guys so into pissing matches? JQ, your theory presupposes that I even have a bias of opinion in the matter, which I don't. You seem to be implying that mine is toward the strict traddie approach, which hardly squares with my own thoughts. You guys have some major negativity looking for a target and you are making up stuff in your own heads to find one. You might have better relief going to the real source. Your issues are not my problem. Good day to you.

By Locker
From Westminster, CO
1 day ago

"the tsunami of new climbers of the value of boldness, the future is with Mobes and retrobolting."

I think you are most likely correct and feel that it may even soon become the "Norm", unfortunately. A lot of the new generation does not have the same set of values. As soon as the "Old guard" bumps, the gridbolting will begin.

Not if I still have a dick to swing!
And Chrissy if it makes u feel better think of my use of the word pussy in the context of a little scared puddy cat:)

chills wrote:By Locker From Westminster, CO 1 day ago "the tsunami of new climbers of the value of boldness, the future is with Mobes and retrobolting." I think you are most likely correct and feel that it may even soon become the "Norm", unfortunately. A lot of the new generation does not have the same set of values. As soon as the "Old guard" bumps, the gridbolting will begin. Not if I still have a dick to swing! And Chrissy if it makes u feel better think of my use of the word pussy in the context of a little scared puddy cat:)

Gold! Intellectual GOLD from chills!

Please, chills, tell us about your bold, runnout, testicle expanding climbs. I think that if more people knew that you were a real bad-ass and not just a ball-cupping man-boy poser, then this would be a much better conversation.

edit to add:
Please, don't get mad and swing your dick at me.

M Sprague wrote: What a tool comment.

M Sprague wrote:Why are you guys so into pissing matches? .

So in your mind calling me a tool isn't starting a pissing match?

Hmmm, I guess you are the victim here.

Locker wrote: Another view many of us "Old trad climbers" are taking is that the new, younger generation are WIMPS (Better young lady?) for not digging the runout stuff (Particularly slab) and they would rather see it overbolted and dummied down.

What this "argument" overlooks is the simple fact that sport climbers have so much more to live for, which changes the risk/benefit equation markedly.

M Sprague wrote:By the way, there is very little moderation of this board usually.

For real folks, you should know. Just because you have an Admin title does not mean you can erase posts, at all. I am one Admin for Texas/Mexico, that's the limit of my mighty power. Other than those areas I have ZERO ability to moderate the Forums. Almost every Admin here can only tweak or enhance route description in their area only. This idea of heavy handed or wide spread moderating is nonsense.
Only a few people out of many can moderate the Forum and yes, lot's of people bozo out and erase all their shit because they were drunk posting and realized it later.

Blaze away..

Hank I think you are missing the part where 20-30 posts from a bunch of different people on different days have been erased from this thread by some mod who we assume to be Mark(forum mod).

There will always be shitpile annoying threads, why not just take a deep breath and ignore them instead of deleting, I saw no threats or anything of any real importance to anyone besides maybe a draw thief that trouble seems to follow.

maybe it was a simple case of drunk deleting