Is the 'Rado better than CA?

Sailing, scuba diving and surfing.. If you like that stuff, you're SOL

The Blueprint Part Dank wrote: Such as? Good resturaunts? We've got them. Art culture? We've got it. (The First Friday Art Walk on Sante Fe in Denver is quite awesome). Live music? Well, you've got the Boulder Theater, The Ogden, Red Rocks and the First Bank Center to name just a few. Not trying to be argumentative, but I feel like you'd be hard pressed to name a "broader interest" that the Front Range can't cater to. Except maybe Pentecostal Snake Handling.

That's kind of like saying CA's got Yosemite and we have The Black just because they are both tall walls. The extent Denver has in the areas you've listed pales in comparison to what's available in CA.

hahaha there IS sailing in Colorado? Seriously? Do you even know what sailing is?
Oh, man, you either live a sheltered life or you are just an idiot. :)

Ive lived in rockalado and ive lived IN yosemite. i LOVE both places..but colorado by far!!

Waay less driving, soo many different kinds of climbing and rock in a drive less than a quarter of the distance from the valley to jtree.

california has more big formations but its seems colorado has more routes per rock.

lifetime or 2 of climbing in eldo alone.

Although..... The east side is ONE MAGICAL PLACE!

COLORADO!!!

A highly objective, extensively researched, issue by issue comparison.

Winter bouldering - CA has Bishop and Joshua Tree, CO has the low elevation areas of the front range. Winner - CA by a mile

Summer bouldering - CA has Way Lake, Tuolumne, Camp 4, Black Mountain, Tahoe, Tramway. CO has RMNP and Mt Evans. Winner - CO by a nose

Sport climbing - This may be controversial, but neither CA nor CO truly have world class sport climbing. CA has the ORG, Shuteye Ridge, certain zones at Tahoe, Mickeys Beach, So Cal choss. CO has Rifle, Shelf Road, BoCan, Clear Creek. Winner - CO

Single pitch crack climbing. Again, disagree if you like, but neither CA nor CO have a great concentration of high quality single pitch cracks in one place. CA has classics that are scattered around, as does CO - but CO has a bit of wingate and it's closer to the Creek. Again, winner is CO.

Multi pitch trad climbing - CA has Yosemite, Pine Creek, Whitney Portal, the Needles, etc. CO has Eldo, Lumpy, Flatirons, Splatte. Winner - Clearly CA

Big Walls - CA has Yosemite. End of story

Alpine - This point is arguable but I'm going to opine that the Sierra has more and better quality alpine rock climbing than the Rockies. Winner - CA

Ice - CO, no contest.

Mountain Biking - CA has Tahoe and Santa Cruz but CO has slickrock. I'm going with CO on this one.

Skiing and snowboarding - CO has better snow but CA has more of it (usually) and a more stable backcountry snowpack, also CA has longer lift lines and more gapers but CO's skiier's are snootier. Winner - Tossup

Surfing and lesser water sports - Duh.

Jobs - Both have major metropolitan areas, but CO has more cubicles close to the climbing than CA does.

People - CA has more cultural diversity, which is a good thing or a bad thing depending on if you are on the blue team or the red team ;) Both states have legions of posers, from the hippier than thou of Berkeley and the hipsters of Frisco to the tatted douchbags of SoCal to the trustafarians of Boulder. Coloradans are stronger at rock climbing in general but are also more annoying, except those from Durango who are actually pretty cool. Winner - Tossup

Overall winner? CO BY A MILE. CA isn't really even worth a visit if you live in Colorado. Unless you are from Durango in which case hit me up when you're in town.

Meanwhile, ten minutes from my door -

Tavis Ricksecker wrote:Sport climbing ... CA has the ORG, Shuteye Ridge, certain zones at Tahoe, Mickeys Beach, So Cal choss.

Funny that you don't even mention the only CA sport crag worth going to.

Otherwise, all of your points are solid. You even neglected to put in one of the categories that CA clearly dominates in...weather.

Tavis Ricksecker wrote:Meanwhile, ten minutes from my door -

Yes, we get it, you live in Bishop. We're all jealous. You can stop gloating now.

Sometimes, if traffic is really bad, it takes me 15 minutes to get from my house to Little Cottonwood Canyon. And the worst part is trying to decide if I'd rather hit powder or granite!! Sometimes I just can't decide and end up driving all the way to either Moab, Maple, or the City of Rocks (about 2:45 for Moab and the City and 1:15 for Maple).

Sorry - what were y'all arguing about again?

JCM wrote: Funny that you don't even mention the only CA sport crag worth going to. Otherwise, all of your points are solid. You even neglected to put in one of the categories that CA clearly dominates in...weather.

You mean this chosspile?



Weather - with the current drought, i'd be happy with a bit more precip out here myself

I also forgot to add -

Beer - CA has SNPA and CO has Coors. JK, Fat Tire. Winner - OR! (Deschutes beats Sierra or New Belgium)

Ganj - $40 for 3.5g of Humboldt outdoor with a MD scrip vs $60 for chem indo. I'd say CA still wins, ironically. If that's your thing.

JCM wrote: Yes, we get it, you live in Bishop. We're all jealous. You can stop gloating now.

nanny nanny

J. Albers wrote: The bivy situation has an easy fix for a fast young lady like yourself though, right? ...car-to-car!! I agree with you though, the camping situation in the Park is a bit dismal. At least in the Meadows you can make the quick drive down Tioga to virtually infinite camping on the Eastside.

C2C is a given. When I say bivy, I mean car bivy so I can get an extra hour+ of sleep instead of driving to the trailhead. With the weather situation in the Park even short routes often require an alpinish start.

Yeah, thats the one. Gloriously blocky choss. The finest rock crawling in all the land.

JCM wrote:Yeah, thats the one. Gloriously blocky choss. The finest rock crawling in all the land.

A cheap imitation Rifle, I say. :)

For bluegrass fans colorado is hard to beat

Colorado sucks. Boulder alone ruins 'rado. Austin B said it best. LCC 15 mins away... Moab hours away... the climate around that state, Utah wins guys, by a LONG shot. I'd way rather deal with LDS people that are nice and will help a brother out, than snotty yuppies in CO and CA.

Ross Hokett wrote:For bluegrass fans colorado is hard to beat

Jamgrass and Bluegrass are NOT the same thing, hippy!

Speaking only from my personal experience...

Living in western Colorado is far FAR better than living in coastal California. The lack of crowds and traffic and the proximity to an incredible variety of climbing options in all directions makes it no contest.

Disclaimer(s): I like wingate crack climbing and the desert. I don't care about water sports. I am not a software engineer making a bazillion dollars a year. I would rather go somewhere quiet with minimal crowds and slightly lower quality climbing than go to the best possible climbing and deal with crowds. I don't like driving more than about 2 hours to get to my recreation. I want easy access to open unregulated BLM lands.

But... the Sierra is definitely better than the Rockies for climbing. I don't miss Yosemite, but I do miss Tuolumne and especially High Sierra climbing. The rock here in western Colorado is pretty crap in the mountains. (Apparently RMNP is good, though)

I lived a 1/2 hour drive from Yosemite for 4 years. Towns near the park leave a bit to be desired. I'm now in western Colorado and love it. Although the climbing nearby doesn't compare to Yosemite/the Sierra, crags are a lot closer and there are no crowds. The lifestyle and climate (for me) are a lot better in Colorado. All a personal preference I guess...

Drew Spaulding wrote: Travis, the fact that you leave The Black Canyon out of this conversation is absurd. And, most of the incredible walls in RMNP are shorter approaches(2-6 miles) than Pine Creek, Whitney Portal, the Needles, etc. I think if you're talking about "Multi pitch trad climbing"... It is of coarse a toss up, BUT, Winner- seriously debatable...

My name is Tavis, not Travis.

For the Black, see "Big Walls"

For RMNP - See "Alpine Climbing"

I admit the Diamond does look like it owns. But then so does the Incredible Hulk, Mt Russel, Mt Chamberlain, Temple Crag, etc etc.

Pine Creek has an approach of about 2 minutes, Whitney Portal is 10-30 minutes depending on the wall, and the Needles is about 2 miles if I remember right. It's apples to oranges though, as none of these places are "Alpine Climbing", which RMNP is.

The whole post was tongue in cheek, BTW, with a grain of truth. I am sure RMNP is awesome. So is the Sierra.

SW CO for its lack of people and cheap cost of living as well as its vicinity to the desert makes it perfect for me.

It all depends what you want they are both great playgrounds.

Tavis - I've always wondered what it looks like around Bishop. You don't happen to have any pictures of boulders in the area do you?