Stoppers in Horizontal Cracks

I post this, not to start debates or arguments, but because I have finally realized there is a huge climbing world outside the one I know. So here comes another question, I have always been told that you can't use stoppers or hexes in horizontal cracks because of force direction, or in other words if you fall on a stopper in a horizontal it will pull out. I have seen many pictures and videos on youtube and such with these pro pieces in horizontals with no issue, so question is, can you use them in horizontal?

William Kramer wrote:... can you use them in horizontal?

yes, like bill said. i prefer hexes and nuts in horizontals vs cams cause if i do deform the wires or stems there a lot cheaper to replace. i'm kinda a cheap ass and don't want to f up expensive gear.

Of course, assuming there is something to keep it from coming out of the horizontal (like if the lip pinches at the front). It's just a piece of metal -- should be pretty easy to tell if it's going to come out or not.

And you won't break the wires from falling on a stopper in a horizontal. You might bend/kink them but they aren't going to just snap. That's the kind of the thing that only happens in internet climbing land.

Placing two pieces in opposition works when there isn't a lip to prevent a straight out pull.

climbing.com/skill/nuts-101/

One thing the article doesn't mention is placing a stopper in opposition to prevent an upward pull which can come in handy where you can't get a cam (ie the start of the 2nd half of Touch N Go in Eldo)

How about some pictures of examples? I love seeing properly placed gear.

Ryan Watts wrote:And you won't break the wires from falling on a stopper in a horizontal. You might bend/kink them but they aren't going to just snap. That's the kind of the thing that only happens in internet climbing land.

Tricams.

I'd guess that 90+ % of gear placements (including stoppers) at the Gunks are in horizontal cracks.

+1 for Tricams

D Buffum wrote: There are lots of great nut placements in horizontal cracks. Just be aware that lateral forces from big swings are a danger.

+1. if you can (not always available or reasonable) set another nut and oppose them via a sling or whatever you have. as has been said.

I think if it "might" hold, it's worth cramming a nut in a horizontal, especially if your pretty sure said nut is still gonna be clipped to your side when you get to the top...

Tricams are bomber when placed as nuts. The relationship doesn't work both ways. You can make nuts work in horizontals, but it's going to be the exception that proves the rule where a horizontal nut placement is better than a tricam.

Sling the nut long in the picture and hope it doesn't walk. It isn't the best piece, but it might hold. Another really good placement for nuts in horizontals is pods. Stick the nut in, then rotate 90 degrees to make it taller. Pull it to the lip to set it. There are tons of placements like that on all types of rock. Doubtful that you would ever break a wire just because it is in a horizontal. It may get kinky, but it won't fail. Even kinky wires aren't bad, you just don't want frayed or crimped. Tri-cams are probably the best solution for horizontals.

One way to make stoppers work in horizontal cracks is to stack
them on either perlon or webbing. By that, I mean one places two stoppers on the same piece of perlon, one above the other. Then
one bends the stoppers over one another and places them into the
crack, and gently pulls the perlon to wedge the stoppers together.
(They will be reversed on one another this way). We used these
in the Gunks often because the cracks there are horizontal.
Works fine.

+10 for tricams. Amazing for horizontals and overall versatility and price.

Awesome, idea with the stacked stoppers. I have a set of Metolius stoppers that were given to me. ( only two were used but ten years old )a little nervous about the wire, maybe I'll look and see if this is an option for them.

Steve Williams wrote:One way to make stoppers work in horizontal cracks is to stack them on either perlon or webbing.

Place your protection according to the rock features available. Don't rely on simply rules.

Nuts can be placed in every plane imaginable if there are appropriate features. I've placed nuts with the wire point to the sky before. With an appropriate surface to wrap around then this can be a perfectly suitable placement.

Steve Williams wrote:One way to make stoppers work in horizontal cracks is to stack them on either perlon or webbing.