Question regarding Devils Tower access and religious rights

Hi all,

I am working on a little class project regarding Native American land rights and wanted to focus on access issues at Devils Tower National Monument. As some may know, Devil's Tower is a sacred site for several Native American tribes, including the Lakota, Crow, Cheyenne, etc. As such, many tribes request climbers to not climb it; especially during June when they are practicing religious ceremonies around the monument. This is a voluntary request, and climbers are not legally required to heed it. I was hoping to hear some first hand accounts of how the climbing community at large and climbers in the area feel on this issue. Also, if you know of any other such access issues, I would very much appreciate hearing about them. Also, I set up an anonymous poll here where you can vote what you would do in this situation. You may have noticed that I also listed this post in a few forums. I did so to increase my sample size. Although this isn't official research so it's not a major issue if my data is inaccurate, I would prefer not double counting people. So, vote in one; not all of them.

It's an access issue and as far as I can tell the Access Fund supports the voluntary June climbing closure. Climbers don't own the monument; if it's important that it's closed for like 1/6th of the climbing season in order to ensure access for the rest of it without starting a conflict, that's fine with me. I will gladly stay off of the tower for one month in order to respect the wishes of other groups for whom the tower is important. The opportunity to climb those cracks is worth it.

If you're doing research on this issue, you've probably come across this article:

Dustin, D., McAvoy, L., Schneider, I., & Frakt, A. (2002). Cross-cultural claims on Devils Tower National Monument: A case study. Leisure Sciences, 24(1), 79-88.

jnrose5 wrote:If you're doing research on this issue, you've probably come across this article: Dustin, D., McAvoy, L., Schneider, I., & Frakt, A. (2002). Cross-cultural claims on Devils Tower National Monument: A case study. Leisure Sciences, 24(1), 79-88.

Yep. Thanks, though. I'm still very interested in hearing people's personal opinions and rationales.

... I was climbing in the area around the end of June a few years back. I had heard about the Native American request to refrain from climbing in June , and it seemed very reasonable . So we made other plans for a few days and came back early July ....

I think the Feds require that you fill out a climbing itenerary , your name, route , where you come from etc ...

You might be able to obtain that info and see how many climbers actually get on the Tower in June ...

... I remember it getting hot pretty early in the day , chasing shade all day .

Mr science.... go look up Cave Rock, NV. for a sad story.

I assume you've already searched this site for prior comments on DT and issues related to it being a "sacred site," whatever that means--if not, I recommend that you do that, as lots of ST members (including myself) have already posted their views and may not feel like writing another screed when they've already done that.

But just to stir the pot: I would respect a request not to climb on a specific part of the tower (or possibly the entire tower) on a specific date (published in advance)--but saying no climbing for the entire month of June (regardless of whether anyone who cares if there are climbers there is within a hundred miles) seems illogical. And what's so special about the entire month of June?--remember "June" does not exist in any traditional Indian religion or culture--that's the white man's calendar.

As you can guess, those of us who are interested in this issue can go and on ad nauseam, and almost never change anyone's mind in the slightest.

Guy Keesee wrote:Mr science.... go look up Cave Rock, NV. for a sad story.

Thanks for the suggestion!

pfwein wrote:I assume you've already searched this site for prior comments on DT and issues related to it being a "sacred site," whatever that means--

Could you forward me a couple links? As of now, all I found (searching: sacred Devils Tower) is this mountainproject.com/v/turni…

Scienceguy- Here's a link: mountainproject.com/v/10644…

pfwein is spot on, in this thread and the link above.

I live an hour away from Devil's Tower. The best climbing there is in April, May, September and October. People climb there in the summer but the heat becomes unbearable at times. I have no problem staying away from Devil's Tower in June for a couple of reasons. One, I don't want to be THAT GUY. Two, June is a terrible month for climbing there due to the onset of sudden thunderstorms. Just plan your trip accordingly and everyone should be able to get along just fine.

pfwein wrote:I assume you've already searched this site for prior comments on DT and issues related to it being a "sacred site," whatever that means--if not, I recommend that you do that, as lots of ST members (including myself) have already posted their views and may not feel like writing another screed when they've already done that. But just to stir the pot: I would respect a request not to climb on a specific part of the tower (or possibly the entire tower) on a specific date (published in advance)--but saying no climbing for the entire month of June (regardless of whether anyone who cares if there are climbers there is within a hundred miles) seems illogical. And what's so special about the entire month of June?--remember "June" does not exist in any traditional Indian religion or culture--that's the white man's calendar. As you can guess, those of us who are interested in this issue can go and on ad nauseam, and almost never change anyone's mind in the slightest.

Good job stirring the pot. You got me to think less of you.

The summer solstice is in June. You don't need a calender just an education.

It's easy to avoid that time frame. I climbed it waaay back in late 70's before the closure had taken place, and climbed in June. Was dam hot,,,can believe that spring and early fall are better times to go. I went on Oct 2nd one year, which turned out to be a day too late; had 20 temps and 8 inches of snow overnight...kinda sucked.

Kirby1013 wrote: Good job stirring the pot. You got me to think less of you. The summer solstice is in June. You don't need a calender just an education.

Doesn't take long to get the haters out!
Along the lines I noted above, this doesn't seem to be the type of issue that leads to polite discourse, at least among a subset of posters. (Seems to me that there's a discernible asymmetry in which "side" brings the nastiness--anyone reading this can see if they disagree.)

Woodchuck--I agree it's easy to avoid DT in June. In fact, unless you're a ranger there or something, it's damn easy to avoid it every day of the year. So maybe the fact that it's easy to avoid in June isn't a compelling reason not to climb there in June.
Brent--Thanks for your recommendation of best times to climb there, but I think, on average, most of us would be more comfortable there on, say, June 1 (avg. high 71, low 44) than on, say, April 1 (avg. high 53, low 25).
I agree that late June isn't typically the best time to climb there, although of course that's a part of the country with wide variation in weather, and the fact that you can chase shade and sun does at least give some options.

It may not change anyone's mind on anything, but to claim that there aren't many delightful days to climb there in June (especially in early June) just isn't true.

Here's a slightly interesting trivia question:
who first free climbed Devil's Tower?
when did they do it (month, not just year)?

pfwein wrote:I assume you've already searched this site for prior comments on DT and issues related to it being a "sacred site," whatever that means--if not, I recommend that you do that, as lots of ST members (including myself) have already posted their views and may not feel like writing another screed when they've already done that. But just to stir the pot: I would respect a request not to climb on a specific part of the tower (or possibly the entire tower) on a specific date (published in advance)--but saying no climbing for the entire month of June (regardless of whether anyone who cares if there are climbers there is within a hundred miles) seems illogical. And what's so special about the entire month of June?--remember "June" does not exist in any traditional Indian religion or culture--that's the white man's calendar. As you can guess, those of us who are interested in this issue can go and on ad nauseam, and almost never change anyone's mind in the slightest.

Did it never occur to you that perhaps it is not that they don't want people climbing on it during "The White Man's month of June" as much as it is that they don't want people climbing on it during a time period culturally relevant to them that happens to approximately correspond to "The White Man's month of June"?

pfwein wrote: Here's a slightly interesting trivia question: who first free climbed Devil's Tower? when did they do it (month, not just year)?

Richard Dreyfuss, November 1977?

mountainproject.com/v/climb…

Just FYI.

( trivia answer: Fritz, 28 June 37)

vincent L. wrote:I think the Feds require that you fill out a climbing itenerary , your name, route , where you come from etc ... You might be able to obtain that info and see how many climbers actually get on the Tower in June

Before the voluntary closure was implemented in 1995, June was the most popular month for climbing. The number of June climbers dropped significantly in the year following, but has steadily risen over the years (about 400 on average), while the total number of yearly climbers has actually decreased a little (the Tower now sees about 4000 climber days annually). Keep in mind these are climber days, not individual climbers: one person climbing the Tower on 50 different days is counted the same as 50 different climbers.

Jeff McLeod wrote: Richard Dreyfuss, November 1977?

LOL,,,I forgot that date! Sounds like someone has their heart set on June, no matter what. Basically, the local tribes would really prefer we didn't climb it At All. June just happens to fit their seasonal choice for celebration and I have no problem with avoiding it those days. I can understand if someone has their heart set on climbing the tower, and any/every week of June is their only free month vacation for the whole dam year. Sucks.

Years ago I walked up Bear Butte, back in SD from DT, and was overwhelmed by the offerings tied to trees all along the trail. The request for respect of DT in June is neither empty nor an eccentric representation from a few folk.

If we expect others to respect our requests not to trundle, deface, chop bolts and otherwise mess with climbs we love, shouldn't we do likewise to such reasonable requests as those re. DT (and for that matter from park folk in re. peregrine breeding and the like)?

Another good place to look at is Navajo Reservation. It holds a lot of cool rocks with religious and financial strings attached.
mountainproject.com/v/totem…
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