Using rope for trad anchors....Negatives???

What are the negatives to using your rope as a part of your anchor system?? If any? Other than losing ten foot of rope.

3 point anchor to master, all with clove-hitches?

Dynamic rope on the anchors??

Why use a static cordelette, when you could just use the rope??

dysclaimer: I am not a guide, nor should any of my ideas be put to use, under any circumstances...

#1. The biggest disadvantage is that you are forced to either swap leads or rebuild the anchor.

#2. If you need to escape the belay you will need to rebuild the anchor.

#3. I think that working with a cordalette is much easier than working with a heavier and bulkier rope.

#4. It can be more difficult to adjust your position at the belay.

That said, there are situations where building the anchor with the rope makes sense.

It makes leading in blocks logistically more difficult. Other than that...not many drawbacks. Less crap to carry, stronger and dynamic, no need for a personal tether. Just make sure your rope management is neat cause if you get tangled, you gotta rebuild your anchor to get the rope out of the system.

If you are not swapping leads it's easier/simpler to use a cordelette. If you are swapping leads then by all means use the rope.

Not sure why you're worried about the cord being static though -- presumably you're attached to the master point via the rope, right?

Goodhue wrote:#1. The biggest disadvantage is that you are forced to either swap leads or rebuild the anchor. #2. If you need to escape the belay you will need to rebuild the anchor. #3. I think that working with a cordalette is much easier than working with a heavier and bulkier rope. #4. It can be more difficult to adjust your position at the belay. That said, there are situations where building the anchor with the rope makes sense.

In response: #1 Yes you would either need to swap leads but you wouldn't need to rebuild the anchor- just swap ends of the rope which in itself can be a hassle. #2 You wouldn't need to "rebuild" the anchor, just escape the current "rope anchor" system with a cord or sling- doesn't seem too difficult to me. #3 Well, this is subjective. I think it's easier to take out three cams, equalize two of them together, clove hitch two points of the anchor and tie a master point. Boom. I'm in the system and have a bomber, simple anchor. #4 Yes.

Ari Kantola wrote:What are the negatives to using your rope as a part of your anchor system?? If any? Other than losing ten foot of rope. 3 point anchor to master, all with clove-hitches? Dynamic rope on the anchors?? Why use a static cordelette, when you could just use the rope?? dysclaimer: I am not a guide, nor should any of my ideas be put to use, under any circumstances...

Goodhue wrote:#1. The biggest disadvantage is that you are forced to either swap leads or rebuild the anchor. #2. If you need to escape the belay you will need to rebuild the anchor. #3. I think that working with a cordalette is much easier than working with a heavier and bulkier rope. #4. It can be more difficult to adjust your position at the belay. That said, there are situations where building the anchor with the rope makes sense.

Conventional wisdom seems to be that you can't anchor with the rope when swapping leads or leading in blocks. However I generally find anchoring with the rope simpler & more convenient, even when swapping leads. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

IMHO one negative of anchoring with the rope is that it works only adequately for building super complex anchors when leading every pitch. However it works great for simple anchors, even if leading every pitch/leading in blocks, and most anchors are simple. This is getting more prevalent every day, as bolted belays seem to be the norm, even on older climbs that were not put up that way. I can provide some methods if anyone is interested.

When climbing some remote adventure multipitch route it can of course be prudent to bring some type of extra cord/webbing along for several reasons.

Also from up-thread, IMHO adjusting belayer position is easiest when using the rope to anchor. You can simply leave yourself an extra-long tether & clove in anywhere, then move around &/or change position on the fly with only a carabiner.

Rescue/belay escape is a little different but not bad. Practice it a bit & see. And to escape the belay just untie from the rope.

It does use up more rope though.

I like cordelettes, web-o-lettes, equalettes, & sliding X's, and use them when situations dictate. There is no '1 true path' or method that is always best. But IMHO it often seems the rope works overall best for me & some that I climb with.

Just my opinion.

In addition to the above

It uses up rope ... On rope stretcher pitches it might mean that the climber wont have enough rope to reach the next belay

If you are linking pitches this can be a major consideration ... It sucks to find this out in the last part of a lead that youre now simuling

Been there, done that

I usually lead in blocks or all the pitches ... An not uncommonly with 2 followers ... Slings or cord is easier for such circumstances

And i often bring bail webbing/cord anyways

;)

To Ryan W.

Definitely not worried about static force using a cordelette. I've just been thinking about shedding weight. My go to right now is a cordelette.

D.Buff- Def.worth considering, considering

Thanks for the responses!

Here's another on for ya folks!

Two double length dyneemas girth hitched, which seems to be about the length of a standard cordelette (give or take), vs. a cordelette? Negatives??

I'm wondering if anyone uses multiple double length dyneemas hitched to build anchors with. It seems more of a task than I first thought

Ari Kantola wrote: Two double length dyneemas girth hitched, which seems to be about the length of a standard cordelette (give or take), vs. a cordelette? Negatives??

Why not get a long dyneema sling to begin with? The negative is untying would be a bitch and the strength of dyneema in knots supposedly goes down half. Try a thinner diameter cord for your cordelette, tied into rabbit ears (shorter and more versatile). Plus it's cheaper to replace if you need to ditch it to bail.

Oh, and thank's for the post Bearbreeder. I heed your wisdom, as I have in the past

As above try not to girth hitch skinny dyneema slings together. I remember when some company came out with a cordelette-length skinny dyneema sewn runner, 15' IIRC. I thought it sounded like a great alternative to the cordelette. But man that thing tangled & twisted & was always a big CF, so before long it went to the back of the gear box.

If you don't carry cordy stuff on your harness, you will be called Old School.

You can make up for it by going hands free with a gri, and asking which way to the pink taped route, brah.

Hey thanks D.Buff, and Mike. I have not girth hitched any dyneema in the field, as I have heard of the weakening potential.

Plus the twisting factor...Mike I agree...

There seems to be so much hate on the cordelette

By the way, I watched a video where the guy was using a cordelette without the ends attached, and he said it removed the whole "fisherman in your face" problem, just double back with the loose ends. and tie a stopper if necc.

Anyone climb with an untied cordalette?

there are virtually an unlimited number of ways to build anchors with 2+ slings ....

the best free resource with examples is ...

rescuedynamics.ca/articles/…

my personal favorite is to clove the two closest pieces with a sling ... put a sling on the farthest piece, and then tie em all together with a knot ...

mr luebbens "rock climbing anchors" is the best book thats easy to understand that isnt free IMO

a climber should be proficient in using slings/cord ... and the rope ... to build anchors depending on the circumstances

the way i show new people to use the rope for trad anchors is one so simple that once you tie it a few times youll never forget it

im not claiming its the "best" or the most "equalized" method in the world ... but its one so simple a newbie could learn it in 5 min and never forget it

KISS

as for untied cord ... plenty of guides use an overhand backed up by a second overhand in their cord ... its easier to tie and untie than a double fishy

;)

Buff

You don't know my gym, Man!

I Buildered the back wall! After a v3 send!! I don't need a gri, or belay gloves....CAUSE I PULL PLASTIC! BITCHES!!! I can belay!

(Anyone want to climb this weekend??)

Ari Kantola wrote:To Ryan W. Definitely not worried about static force using a cordelette. I've just been thinking about shedding weight.

6m of bluewater 5.5mm titan cord @ 16g/m = 96g = 0.21 lbs.

I think you'll be alright.

The real question is: Should I trust the Old and Busted??

Less is more

Hard to rig a rap with your rope when it's incorporated in an anchor. The solution is simple and obvious, but you asked.

A dynamic rope is rated for say, 10 falls. If you use part of this rope for an anchor, and you fall on it, then take that into consideration the next time you lead with it. That said, I use it all the time.

Doug Meneke wrote:A dynamic rope is rated for say, 10 falls. If you use part of this rope for an anchor, and you fall on it, then take that into consideration the next time you lead with it. That said, I use it all the time.

LOL. Shit I better retire mine then. On some days, they get that many falls before lunchtime.