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BD X4, ongoing real-world review (will update over time)

Matt N · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 415
KevinD wrote:Otherwise, they are great cams but nothing groundbreaking compared to aliens or mastercams.
Yep - to me, they're exactly what you'd expect from an Alien/Mastercam love child.
Now I have to figure out which set I want to sell out of X4s, C3s and MCs. Need more field/play time with them.
Ryan Nevius · · Perchtoldsdorf, AT · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 1,837
Jake Jones wrote: Ryan, You're just referring to the ones with the kevlar (or whatever it is) cords in the top 3 sizes, right? I only have the blue and yellow sizes and I like them. I used to use a yellow C3 alot but it's nice to have a more flexible 4 lobe option with essentially the same head width (only slightly bigger by about a millimeter or so). Anyone had any problems with the bottom 3 sizes? I love mine.
Exactly, I'm referring to the double-axle sizes. This seems to be where others with similar problems are experiencing the issue as well. I haven't heard complaints from those using the smaller few.
Bryan Hall · · Portland, Oregon · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 100

I had the .75 X4 for a while and liked it but felt like it was a little stickier than my regular .75 C4. I still loved the flexible stem and ended up ordering a whole set.

It just so happened that I jumped on to this thread right when I got them. It's true, my .4 was horrible and .5 was pretty bad. The .75 had minor glue retraction issues.

The .3 and .2? Great, place them a lot and no worries with the metal cables.

I contacted Black Diamond about an exchange for my X4's and concern about the problem. I hadn't even removed the tags from my .4 and .5 yet. No response after a full week of waiting. Sold all mine with the kevlar cables. Looking to add Totem Basics to my rack instead of X4's as my bendy narrow head cam.

K R · · CA · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 50

I was thinking about soldering the part where the stem might want to kink. Can anyone confirm whether this is a good or bad idea?

NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60

That sounds like an awesome idea.

K R · · CA · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 50

Because I still like it better than the alternatives and can get 25% off on Black Diamond cams only. I just really didn't like the feel of the Fixe/CCH Alien in my hand. The Mastercam has a worse expansion range. The only other micro cam I'd consider at this point is the Totem Basic. A downside with them is they have a smaller selection of micro cams.

Forthright · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 110

WOW people are still on this "kinking thing"?

ALIENS AND BASICS DO IT AS WELL.

NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60

I think that everyone should look into using solder and epoxy to modify and repair climbing gear. Even superglue might work. This is a really good idea.

K R · · CA · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 50

NC Rock Climber, super glue doesn't stick to metal unless mixed with hydrochloric acid.

Well if a Totem kinks too, then I really don't care. X4 it is.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

a wire that keeps on kinking ... and re-straightening ... will get progressively weaker and eventually break ...

the BMC has seen at least 4 of the old style wire cams break apart in the last few years ... at least one of which has never been fallen on according to the owner

mountainproject.com/v/have-…

BMC

its something that happens particularly with offset brassies

dmm brass offset

;)

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
bearbreeder wrote: ... the BMC has seen at least 4 of the old style wire cams break apart in the last few years ...
FOUR?????!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!

STop ThE PreSSES, WE'R alL g0/V/VA DIIIEEE!!!!!!
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Ray Pinpillage wrote: FOUR?????!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?! STop ThE PreSSES, WE'R alL g0/V/VA DIIIEEE!!!!!!
wire fatigue on those cams might not seem serious to you, why who cares if a cam breaks =P ... and this is only the reported ones to the BMC in the UK alone

did even 4 of the infamous CCH aliens break in real life usage?

as to the X4s, ive used one of my partners blue and gray ones ... they seem fine, but my equivalent green alien is definitely more flexible without any kinking on whippers yet ... or retraction issues

only time will tell if the "kinking" affects anything ... well find out after a few years of good use

;)
Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
bearbreeder wrote: wire fatigue on those cams might not seem serious to you, why who cares if a cam breaks =P ... and this is only the reported ones to the BMC in the UK alone did even 4 of the infamous CCH aliens break in real life usage? as to the X4s, ive used one of my partners blue and gray ones ... they seem fine, but my equivalent green alien is definitely more flexible without any kinking on whippers yet ... or retraction issues only time will tell if the "kinking" affects anything ... well find out after a few years of good use ;)
OH MY GAAAAWD, 4!!!!!11!11!1111!

Get back to me when more than a small handful out of a cool hundred thousand fail under conditions that are actually known.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Ray Pinpillage wrote: OH MY GAAAAWD, 4!!!!!11!11!1111! Get back to me when more than a small handful out of a cool hundred thousand fail under conditions that are actually known.
they sold a hundred thousand of that particular type of cams?

dya know how many actual failures there may well be that are unreported ... the first BMC report i posted, if you read it in full if you are the "expert" you obviously are, indicated that the owner of the two failed cams had seem a similar failure many years ago as well which was unreported

i didnt know you had all the sales data of the manufactures mistah ray =P

actual climbing gear failures are fairly rare thankfully ... but one should definitely be aware of the potential in flexible wire cams (and nuts) ... and not dismiss them in some intraweb posturing snark

of course according to you it doesnt matter one whit ... and you should never worry if this starts to happen ...



eyes wide shut eh

;)
Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
bearbreeder wrote: dya know how many actual failures there may well be that are unreported ... the first BMC report i posted, if you read it in full if you are the "expert" you obviously are, indicated that the owner of the two failed cams had seem a similar failure many years ago as well which was unreported
Assumptions and anecdotes, wow, you've really built a compelling case for all four of those failures over the years. I mean, that's almost like laboratory testing...virtually scientific!

bearbreeder wrote:actual climbing gear failures are fairly rare thankfully ...
Says you, the BMC said 4!!1111!!1111!!! cams have failed. That's serious even if you don't think so!

I'm off to solder and epoxy my cam wires.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Ray Pinpillage wrote: Assumptions and anecdotes, wow, you've really built a compelling case for all four of those failures over the years. I mean, that's almost like laboratory testing...virtually scientific! I'm off to solder and epoxy my cam wires.
no you mean you are out to puff your intraweb chest out a bit more

and those 4 failure happened in the span of around 8 years ... do we have any other failure of cams that fail at 4 in 8 years that ARENT due to poor placements ... post those up by all means !!! (we actually do but youd never admit to it ... LOL)

its amazing how MP will go gaga over stuff like PASes, deadly dyneema, killer aliens ...

and "experts" think metal fatigue broken wires are a non issue

if you dont know what to inspect for, then you might well miss something that might cause that cam to break in half

of course according to you, its all irrelevant ... youre the one ASSUMING it doesnt matter

LOL

;)
Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
bearbreeder wrote: ... do we have any other failure of cams that fail at 4 in 8 years that ARENT due to poor placements ... post those up by all means !!!
How do we know there aren't more rope failures than are reported, hmmmm? How many unreported PAS failures are there? How many unreported shoe lace failures? All of these unreported failures could be nearing pandemic levels but they continue to go unreported!!!1!1!1!1!1!!111
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Ray Pinpillage wrote: How do we know there aren't more rope failures than are reported, hmmmm? How many unreported PAS failures are there? How many unreported shoe lace failures? All of these unreported failures could be nearing pandemic levels but they continue to go unreported!!!1!1!1!1!1!!111
Wow mister ray it looks like youre the one "panicking"

Your the one posting in caps with all thise exclamation marks !!!!!!!!!!!!!

One should simply be aware of that a wire which kinks over and over again in the same place is weaker there ... And that this has caused failures in thr past

Thats all

Until you decided to show how much of an interweb "MAN" you are with all those CAPS and !!!!!!

LOL

Go out and climb in some real rock

;)
Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
bearbreeder wrote: ... And that this has caused failures in thr past Thats all
Yes but who knows how many failures it has caused? Only 4 have been reported and it has been indicated there could be an almost infinite number of unreported failures!!!11!!!11!1!
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Ray Pinpillage wrote: Yes but who knows how many failures it has caused? Only 4 have been reported and it has been indicated there could be an almost infinite number of unreported failures!!!11!!!11!1!
Dont panic little one ... You dont take whippers anyways

You wont die quite yet ... Youd have to climb first ...

LOL

;)
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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