Adding Bolts between runouts

MJM.... agreed.

Locker, it will be gud to hang in HVCG with ya...

Every time this discussion comes up I think, what would Harding do?

Cor wrote:20kN, Skytop has access issues.. But seriously, if a bolt is what is going to help keep a climbing area open. then the area is probably doomed anyway. An example would be the girl & rock fall & closure.. IMHO

You could argue that the area in my example was "doomed anyway," but we were able to postpone its closure long enough for tens of thousands of climbers to enjoy the area with no access restrictions. If we had taken a "screw it, it's going to close anyway" approach, the area may have closed in 1990. We were able to provide climbing enjoyment for years because of our proactive stance on route maintenance, trail work, stewardship, ect.

Guy Keesee wrote:Pretty limited climbing on the Islands from what I have been told. What governmental agencies manage the land where the crags are at OR is it some private owned place??? Because using one injury as an excuse is pretty drastic IMHO Don't people die surfing????

It's no Yosemite here, but the climbing we have is really fun and quite unique. The land is owned by the state. You are correct that the state does not close down the beaches when surfers get injured, but the difference is that we have about 500 climbers and they have about 250,000 surfers. It's far easier to say no to a few hundred than it is to say no to 1/4th the state population.

the schmuck wrote:In HI there is one very good sport crag of about 80 routes, with spectacular position over the ocean, and several smaller crags. A friend of mine equiped many of these areas with titanium glue-ins at his own cost, so the routes are about as safe as they get. The land is owned by the state, which has sovereign immunity for water sports, but not for other activities. Hiking trails have been closed in HI because hikers were hurt/lost/killed. The state lives in terror of the trial lawyers lobby. And yes,there have been virtually no access issues until this girl (part of a boyscout group) was hurt at the base of a top rope, and lawsuits ensued.

You're talking about Mike R. and I. We are the only two that do major route maintenance in the area. Also, the girl that was injured was not part of the Boy Scouts (the Boy Scouts don't have girls), she was being lead by the YMCA.

Isn't the pucker factor part of the fun of slab climbing? The whole mental head game? If you grid bolt slab you lose that. High stepping into a friction dish with a bolt at your waist is a much different experience than when the bolt is 20 feet down.

Take a place like Stone Mountain, NC. Pretty much all slab with looong runouts. That's part of the flavor of the place. Some serious slab jedi climbing. If all those routes had bolts every 5 feet it would just be...boring.

Just because you don't like the mental head game doesn't mean other people don't. Why take that away from them? There's plenty of perfectly safe sport climbs out there if that's more your thing.

P.S. Why the hell would you want to sport climb slab any way?

MJMobes wrote: jesus chuffykillis, its OK bro

Hahaha! Did that guy beat your ass one time or steal your woman? Every time he comments no matter what it's about, you're on him like white on rice. I mean it's reeeeeeaaaallly obvious at this point. Granted, he is a giant hard on with annoying subtle spray that's not so subtle, but goddamn man, if he were to come to a sudden halt, we'd be digging you out of his ass for a week. I mean, you felt compelled to comment on something that you had a slight inkling might have been him. LOL. I suggest you either mount a saddle on his sack and ride it proudly, or hop off it entirely, but this catch me, fuck me game is unbecoming. So take a break. Bro. And btw, Killis isn't witty enough to write something with this magnitude of hilarity, but if he pisses you off, this is bound to do the same, and my sack is lonely so mount up, big guy ;^)

Jared Moore wrote:So, I am wondering...what are the ethics of adding a bolt in between large runouts? Is it a bad thing to make a route safer for someone to try, so that the risk of taking a bad whipper or even decking isn't as high? I realize that some climbs are so easy and putting bolts there can sometimes be silly, however, why have runouts on 10s or harder? I would appreciate only serious constructive comments...

The answer is easier than most are making it to be: if the FA party did the route in a certain style and ran out 100 before a bolt was placed, that means only one thing: someone showed that it can be done and you or someone else can't head trip it that far, that either don't do it or work up to it. We have legendary such climbs where I live, put up by equal legends in hob nail boots no less. Most can't do them in today's best climbing shoes. So, those routes are held in awe and are somewhat mythical, having taken on their own kharma. They can be repeated but there should always be those kind of routes left as the FA-ers found them. Climb them as is or hands & feet off). (PS: If our huge climbing community found these particular routes with new bolts on them, it wouldn't take long until we found out who did it. They would be paid a visit and the bolts chopped. These routes should retain their own mythdom,,,,,they've been repeated but by a select few and then those that did them are held in near-equal awe. Just to bold to protect one's selfish safety is a sin, simple as that. Go bouldering instead.....keep off of them.

MJMobes wrote:slab climbing NC in this temp must of been pretty good today for the lucky folks out there not slaving for the man. sunny and 28 tomorrow here, I'll be out getting a tan on some slabs, f work

Would be good if stone mountain didn't look like this:

don'tchuffonme wrote: Hahaha! Did that guy beat your ass one time or steal your woman? Every time he comments no matter what it's about, you're on him like white on rice. I mean it's reeeeeeaaaallly obvious at this point. Granted, he is a giant hard on with annoying subtle spray that's not so subtle, but goddamn man, if he were to come to a sudden halt, we'd be digging you out of his ass for a week. I mean, you felt compelled to comment on something that you had a slight inkling might have been him. LOL. I suggest you either mount a saddle on his sack and ride it proudly, or hop off it entirely, but this catch me, fuck me game is unbecoming. So take a break. Bro. And btw, Killis isn't witty enough to write something with this magnitude of hilarity, but if he pisses you off, this is bound to do the same, and my sack is lonely so mount up, big guy ;^)

OK killis.

Warbonnet wrote: The answer is easier than most are making it to be: if the FA party did the route in a certain style and ran out 100 before a bolt was placed, that means only one thing: someone showed that it can be done and you or someone else can't head trip it that far, that either don't do it or work up to it. We have legendary such climbs where I live, put up by equal legends in hob nail boots no less. Most can't do them in today's best climbing shoes. So, those routes are held in awe and are somewhat mythical, having taken on their own kharma. They can be repeated but there should always be those kind of routes left as the FA-ers found them. Climb them as is or hands & feet off). (PS: If our huge climbing community found these particular routes with new bolts on them, it wouldn't take long until we found out who did it. They would be paid a visit and the bolts chopped. These routes should retain their own mythdom,,,,,they've been repeated but by a select few and then those that did them are held in near-equal awe. Just to bold to protect one's selfish safety is a sin, simple as that. Go bouldering instead.....keep off of them.

This attitude is right, but doesn't quite go far enough. Once someone has done the most difficult or dangerous ascent, that is the only way it should be repeated. The first ascent doesn't matter, the most hardcore ascent does. That's why Honnold is becoming a living legend. No one cares about whoever is climbing El Cap this year, everything else looks ridiculously easy and safe in comparison.

So if it was done with boots, stepping on the route with fancy tech rubber is weak. If someone free solos it, showing up with a rope is an insult to the free soloer. And this doesn't just go for first ascents. When someone shows it can be done with more runout, chop any weak FA bolts.

Yes 20kN,
I commend you on your efforts to keep access open, and replace hardware. You are a great steward for all of these services! I have done similar things, and it is a great feeling to give back to the community - our family! (climbers)

But if the area was shut down because of a girls injury… That could have happened then, or five years before, in which case it would have been shut down five years before? (I presume this the case, given what you said.)

So I stand by my argument of "adding a bolt would help save access at a threatened area."
NO, I don't believe so. And I am not trying to be a crusty trad. I agree with many points in this discussion. Like adding a bolt to a silly rap bolted run out. But I still think the FA should be contacted if possible, or a community vote if possible before you just do it…

Happy Friday, this thread is dead to me.. (bunch of nonsense) or at least until Monday.. ;)
C

Meme Guy wrote: Would be good if stone mountain didn't look like this:

Meme Guy; When did you take that photo? I know we've been getting snow but the weekend looks splitter. I was thinking about hitting Stone up on Saturday. You think it would be alright by then?

aren wrote: If someone free solos it, showing up with a rope is an insult to the free soloer. And this doesn't just go for first ascents. When someone shows it can be done with more runout, chop any weak FA bolts.

nailed it. the one with he most sack wins and z boltz getz z chop-chop.

it is trad, trad is thus.

Jonathan Dull wrote: Meme Guy; When did you take that photo? I know we've been getting snow but the weekend looks splitter. I was thinking about hitting Stone up on Saturday. You think it would be alright by then?

Stone Mountain rangers took it on Wednesday. Park is still closed and they're slow as hell about opening after snow/ice. You may want to call ahead.

ncparks.gov/Visit/parks/stm…

Update. Park open up to the upper parking lot. Bitch of a hike in if you ask me.

I wonder if "Don't chuffonme" would be so brave with his comments if he used his real name (or clue). Perhaps no accident he chose yellow!!

USBRIT wrote:I wonder if "Don't chuffonme" would be so brave with his comments if he used his real name (or clue). Perhaps no accident he chose yellow!!

chuffy is just a sockpuppet handle for one of our regulars who we all know

back to the subject- My beliefs on bolts and runouts definitely leans towards the sporto side usually but I do appreciate runouts on easy sections of rock. I've only spent a couple of days in the southern San Rafael Swell but I have to say those are the best 5.6-5.8 runout climbs I've done anywhere.

Have people added bolts to the existing routes in the swell? I know you wrote that bringing a drill and a few bolts might be a good idea, just curious.

So your first name is US and your last name is BRIT? Cool parents.

And what did I say that was so brave? That only strength matters, or that M0bseypoo follows VaGenius around like a fart sniffing shih tzu?

One was sarcastic, the other is just the plain 'ole truth. Both are hilarious.

Don't take yourself so seriously mayt!

MJMobes wrote: chuffy is just a sockpuppet handle for one of our regulars who we all know back to the subject- My beliefs on bolts and runouts definitely leans towards the sporto side usually but I do appreciate runouts on easy sections of rock. I've only spent a couple of days in the southern San Rafael Swell but I have to say those are the best 5.6-5.8 runout climbs I've done anywhere. Have people added bolts to the existing routes in the swell? I know you wrote that bringing a drill and a few bolts might be a good idea, just curious.

LOL! I knew you'd be prompt with the reacharound on that one ;-)

Your saddle awaits, sir. Giddyup!

Too scary?
Grow a set or find another fucking route.

don'tchuffonme wrote:So your first name is US and your last name is BRIT? Cool parents. And what did I say that was so brave? That only strength matters, or that M0bseypoo follows VaGenius around like a fart sniffing shih tzu? One was sarcastic, the other is just the plain 'ole truth. Both are hilarious. Don't take yourself so seriously mayt! LOL! I knew you'd be prompt with the reacharound on that one ;-) Your saddle awaits, sir. Giddyup!

OK killis

20kN ..... that really sucks, how can the gov shut down a crag???? for no good reason (not that there is any reason to shut one down IMHO)

Is a lawsuit going fwd????

Is the Acess Fund not involved????

(they stay away from the hard fights, IMHO)

is there a thread on this closure???

im courious .....

The Access Fund is all over the Hawaii issue and has been for some time. There is a bill in the legislature that would extend liability to the state for hiking and climbing and should put things on the path to being reopened. Looks like that bill got unanimous approval from the committee it needed to pass and is on to the full house. Look here for info and how to help¬oc=1