Help! New diet not complimenting climbing

matt c. wrote: Did you find scientific backing an increased effect on mood? I didn't see any biochemical evidence that a ketogenic diet has CNS levels or brain function. Unless you count rats on the ketogenic diet, which you have to admit, is quite thin. Also, isn't there some evidence that there is no improvement in strength from this diet? (5). Maybe your perceived improvement was caused by the cognitive disruption that you are suffering from. :)

i have to agree that there isn't overwhelming amount of well-grounded scientific information on these low-carb or ketogenic diets, which is why i said that the information was offered as a personal experience and experiment. My good friend who's a biochemist and a climber, is researching this academically as well as experimenting on himself. Maybe he'll have some ground-breaking data soon-who knows?

Somehow you decided to interpret "feeling better and stronger" as cognitive improvement and "magical strength gain," not sure who's suffering from cognitive disruption here... I reckon that I feel better because I am less stuffed with carbs, I have lower levels of insulin spike during the day, and thus my blood glucose level isn't on a roller coaster like the typical diets nowadays do to you. I don't go through short periods of crazy hyperactivity and I don't feel like I need a nap after a meal. As for feeling stronger, it's *probably* because of the higher protein intake (for me mostly non-meat sourced) on this diet, which allows me to recover better so I train harder and more frequently.

Hey, don't experiment if you don't want to, i couldn't care less...but don't think that a ":)" makes your snide comments any less pitiful.

Just Solo wrote: same for our bodies...

Not necessarily. Yes, eating unhealthy everyday can cause health problems in the long run, especially if you dont exercise. However, just because you eat healthy does not mean you are going to feel, look and be good. For example, a guy that eats healthy, but hates the food he eats might feel worse than the guy who mixes in the occasional pizza, or whatever he likes most.

Also, when considering overall energy, I would argue that the guy who does not eat particularly healthy but works out like a Marine is probably going to feel better than the guy who eats avocados all day, but sits on his ass. I think regular physical fitness (including more than just climbing) is pretty critical to the game, and possibly more important than food choices depending on the diet.

Okay, people. I'm your lab test right now. Ive been letting everyone banter for a while because I didn't want to speak up to soon. I've only been on this diet for 4 weeks now but.... Okay, I started eating nuts throughout the day and that's the only change I've implemented since I've asked for everyones advice. While my general energy has been lower, my climbing has shot through the roof. I've been projecting V8,s for about 8 months now and all of a sudden I've been finishing all my projects AND repeating them eaisily. While I'm climbing my energy is clear and focused. I feel great throughout the day, no more wanting to rake naps at lunch or after work. I'm not having anger thwords my work mates (I work construction, theres a lot of testosterone in the air), and I haven't had any sugar cravings for a while. If this is what the diet is going to give me, I'm all in. There's a lot of science and opinions floating around here so I just decided to tell you all my current results. I'll keep you updated as I become more superhuman. I mean seriously, I've been trying ANY V8's I could find for months and have failed on ALL of them, I go on this diet for 4 weeks and all of a sudden I'm climbing like a champ. Pretty good results to me.

20 kN wrote: Not necessarily. Yes, eating unhealthy everyday can cause health problems in the long run, especially if you dont exercise. However, just because you eat healthy does not mean you are going to feel, look and be good. For example, a guy that eats healthy, but hates the food he eats might feel worse than the guy who mixes in the occasional pizza, or whatever he likes most. Also, when considering overall energy, I would argue that the guy who does not eat particularly healthy but works out like a Marine is probably going to feel better than the guy who eats avocados all day, but sits on his ass. I think regular physical fitness (including more than just climbing) is pretty critical to the game, and possibly more important than food choices depending on the diet.

20Kn, I'm going to have to give you a "duh" on the exercise thing. Not part of the discussion though really. ;-)

As I said, food is more complex than our little discussion, but I will hold tight that it is simply fuel in the grand scheme of things. Without it, we die. Something has to provide energy to these little vessels of ours, and that is food. I prefer to mostly eat for my health, I do this diet thing for a living... I've helped many people with their dieting ups and downs. Not any one diet works for everyone. Takes some experimenting, and some discipline. In the end, hopefully one feels vibrant and healthy. am I suggesting to NEVER eat pizza, or chips, or any other "comfort" food? Of course not. But, be reasonable in quantity and pay attention to what you eat. It does make a difference.

Second that, original post never mentioned cutting out protein but now adding nuts has made OP crush the V8s he was presumably flailing on 5 days ago?

Am I missing something?

Christian wrote:Second that, original post never mentioned cutting out protein but now adding nuts has made OP crush the V8s he was presumably flailing on 5 days ago? Am I missing something?

OP wrote the he was climbing V8 "all day" four days ago...

Ben Hicks wrote: Nuts are high fat as well. Makes sense that adding steady caloric intake through the day after cutting flash and crash carbs would even out energy through the day. Protein's good too The 5 day aspect of it is a bit odd though.

Yep and yep...

But, I will say, it is possible to feel better pretty quickly if you are eating a food that doesn't agree with you, then take it out... Or, start to add more calories and/or protein and fat. Could be many things really, could just simply be in his head...

I'm talking about no sugar, no simple carbs, plenty of protein and veggies and to keep from crashing mid day I just eat nuts every 45 mins or so throughout the day inbetween meals. Very simple people. Also folks might try to read the entire thread from the beginning before commenting about being confused. Kinda lazy.

So I've been thinking about what everyone's been saying. One diet is as good as another, some diets are better then others, one paticular diet is the best diet, all diets are in your head, maybe he's bipolar, etc. Here are the facts. I cut out sugar, and grains and white potatoes and anything proccessed. Instead I've been eating meat, veggies, plain yogurt, lots of nuts, coffee and that's pretty much it. No fruits right now because I'm trying to get my body to switch to burning fats instead of sugars. I will eventually eat fruit again and I'm looking forward to eating yams as well. I'll see about whole grain bread and whatnot but that's down the road. My attitude has improved due to a clearer less fogged mind, my days seem happier, I'm not sore in my lower back when I wake up in the morning anymore, my general energy is lower but constant through the day, I've been climbing like a beast. So yeah, that's a lot of stuff and I'm 31. I've been observing my self for my whole life, this isn't me just imagining differences that aren't there. You'll all have to take my word for that since none of you know me. So, is it possible that by changing my diet for the last 4 weeks has given me the physical strength or physical health to jump my bouldering level up as much as it has? Probably not. So what's going on? I figured it out I think.... I've always had the strength to climb V8's, Hell, I probably can go climb a V10 right now if physical strength is all I need. But it's not. My mind has been clouded all this time by the constant sugar spike rushes I've been pumping into my system. This new diet might be a slightly lower energy giver but the energy I do have is sooo focuced. I'm moving my body in more subtle directions and I'm noticing all the little things that you have to focus on when climbing harder climbs. It shows me how much truth there is in saying climbing is so much about technique and not as much about strength. I've been climbing in a FOG this whole time because I thought the sugar rush was helping me climb better. It was just giving me enough energy to climb horribly with more enthusiasm :) A diet isn't just to improve your physical body, I'm sure that with the right genetics I could eat a horrible diet my whole life and as long as I continue to exercise I could stay fit and healthy until I die of old age. A diet is also to make your mind healthy. A steady even source of clean energy is great because now I can focus on what going on around me instead of constantly fluctuating between highs and lows all day. What if there's a diet to make you happy for your family or, make you more driven for sports or, make you more mellow for a yoga retreat etc. In this forum I'm seeing so much focus on the physical changes and calorie counts and the way the body burns fuel etc. What does everyone think about the mental aspect of a diet. Does that change anyone's opinions on what diet is the best? Does anyone want to refute my claim that having a clearer mind has just allowed me to climb ALL my projects in just 4 weeks of dietary change? How important is your mental clarity in your climbing life? Lets switch perspectives and give me your viewpoints.

Jon Hartmann wrote:Does anyone want to refute my claim that having a clearer mind has just allowed me to climb ALL my projects in just 4 weeks of dietary change?

I think that projecting the lines for 9 months might have more to do with it than a 4 week dietary change. Even if its not the same problems, but tons at the same grade, eventually that physical training effect of projecting them should make them start falling to your efforts as you get physically stronger.

Add the fact that the metric is binary...send or don't...and correlation looks even more cloudy. Because how close you were while still failing is something virtually impossible to measure and how "close" we felt on a failed effort is often a poor gauge unless you've done the thing previously.

Really good point Will.

Jon Hartmann wrote:So I've been thinking about what everyone's been saying. One diet is as good as another, some diets are better then others, one paticular diet is the best diet, all diets are in your head, maybe he's bipolar, etc. Here are the facts. I cut out sugar, and grains and white potatoes and anything proccessed. Instead I've been eating meat, veggies, plain yogurt, lots of nuts, coffee and that's pretty much it. No fruits right now because I'm trying to get my body to switch to burning fats instead of sugars. I will eventually eat fruit again and I'm looking forward to eating yams as well. I'll see about whole grain bread and whatnot but that's down the road. My attitude has improved due to a clearer less fogged mind, my days seem happier, I'm not sore in my lower back when I wake up in the morning anymore, my general energy is lower but constant through the day, I've been climbing like a beast. So yeah, that's a lot of stuff and I'm 31. I've been observing my self for my whole life, this isn't me just imagining differences that aren't there. You'll all have to take my word for that since none of you know me. So, is it possible that by changing my diet for the last 4 weeks has given me the physical strength or physical health to jump my bouldering level up as much as it has? Probably not. So what's going on? I figured it out I think.... I've always had the strength to climb V8's, Hell, I probably can go climb a V10 right now if physical strength is all I need. But it's not. My mind has been clouded all this time by the constant sugar spike rushes I've been pumping into my system. This new diet might be a slightly lower energy giver but the energy I do have is sooo focuced. I'm moving my body in more subtle directions and I'm noticing all the little things that you have to focus on when climbing harder climbs. It shows me how much truth there is in saying climbing is so much about technique and not as much about strength. I've been climbing in a FOG this whole time because I thought the sugar rush was helping me climb better. It was just giving me enough energy to climb horribly with more enthusiasm :) A diet isn't just to improve your physical body, I'm sure that with the right genetics I could eat a horrible diet my whole life and as long as I continue to exercise I could stay fit and healthy until I die of old age. A diet is also to make your mind healthy. A steady even source of clean energy is great because now I can focus on what going on around me instead of constantly fluctuating between highs and lows all day. What if there's a diet to make you happy for your family or, make you more driven for sports or, make you more mellow for a yoga retreat etc. In this forum I'm seeing so much focus on the physical changes and calorie counts and the way the body burns fuel etc. What does everyone think about the mental aspect of a diet. Does that change anyone's opinions on what diet is the best? Does anyone want to refute my claim that having a clearer mind has just allowed me to climb ALL my projects in just 4 weeks of dietary change? How important is your mental clarity in your climbing life? Lets switch perspectives and give me your viewpoints.

Jon, looking over your quote here, try to add in more fats. What you are doing, is exactly what I've been doing to great effect. Coconut oil is a great oil, flax is as well, but you can't cook with it. As I said before, give it a few more days/weeks. Took me right at 30ish days before I really started to feel "good" as my body got better at using fat for fuel. I still don't think I am there 100% (can take months)but well on my way. Also, I firmly believe what you are experiencing is directly related to diet, I have seen it too much to refute it. However, I think Will might be more correct with regard to your recent climbing improvement. Sometimes, after working over and over failing, one day the body just "gets it". You are teaching your body new movement patterns. Sort of like when you learned to ride a bike, seemed impossible at first, then BANG got it. In this case it just takes a little longer and more tenacity.

One of the diets sounds like OP's approach
Twins go on different diets

So important, they even got video on CNN

amarius wrote:One of the diets sounds like OP's approach Twins go on different diets So important, they even got video on CNN

The challenge with the diet as described in the above piece is the total elimination factor. No one here, particularly the OP, is talking about a complete elimination of anything. He is discussing taking out specific carbs, not ALL carbs. With this, a caloric drop takes place and must be replaced by additional protein and fat. The idea here is a HEALTHY BALANCE of carbs to fat. Some people do better with a bit higher carb ratio, some do better with higher fat ratio. It is all about finding out what works best for YOUR METABOLISM, everyone is different to a degree...

Here is a direct rebuttal to the above article. Keep in mind, I'm not a strict Paleo fan, but this describes the type of thing the OP is talking about. Pretty staggering numbers considering Zabriski is a pro cyclist. Note the time it took for him to convert, this is important, the above article only allowed for 30days, hardly enough time to really prove anything...

mensjournal.com/health-fitn…

Having a video on CNN does not automatically quantify something as "important" or even newsworthy.

don'tchuffonme wrote:Having a video on CNN does not automatically quantify something as "important" or even newsworthy.

Don't mind the dog, beware of the sarcastic owner