Help! New diet not complimenting climbing

aren wrote: Please tell me more about this metabolic acidosis? I just asked my buddy, and he says that's a problem for people with other health care issues. He notes that he's barely eaten a carb in 3 years.

youtube.com/watch?v=7xJhg7i…

First off no one gave me a Candida diagnosis. I went in this diet because my intake of sugar was enormous. Sugar in the coffee in the morning, espresso double shot after lunch, sometimes a full container of pudding at night as wellas the occasionaldonut or 3, all in 1 day. If I dont have an overgrowth of Candida, well, God must love me a lot. I just wanted to give my system a section of time to become more sugar neutral. It seems like most people here are saying carbs and sugars are fine as ling as those are complex. Right now my diet is coffee in the morning, baked chicken, asparagus, broccali and quinoa for lunch and the same for dinner. I work 8 hours a day as an electrician and then climb heavily on the weekends and 2 times a week after work. I am extremely active during my work day. Just trying to make it all work. Any suggestions for solid and simple meal plan along those lines that will fuel my needs? I trad climb 5.11's in jtree on the weekends and boulder V7-V8 at our various bouldering areas on the weekdays after work. I need a large amount of energy thanks to my lifestyle

Jon Hartmann wrote:First off no one gave me a Candida diagnosis. I went in this diet because my intake of sugar was enormous. Sugar in the coffee in the morning, espresso double shot after lunch, sometimes a full container of pudding at night as wellas the occasionaldonut or 3, all in 1 day. If I dont have an overgrowth of Candida, well, God must love me a lot. I just wanted to give my system a section of time to become more sugar neutral. It seems like most people here are saying carbs and sugars are fine as ling as those are complex. Right now my diet is coffee in the morning, baked chicken, asparagus, broccali and quinoa for lunch and the same for dinner. I work 8 hours a day as an electrician and then climb heavily on the weekends and 2 times a week after work. I am extremely active during my work day. Just trying to make it all work. Any suggestions for solid and simple meal plan along those lines that will fuel my needs? I trad climb 5.11's in jtree on the weekends and boulder V7-V8 at our various bouldering areas on the weekdays after work. I need a large amount of energy thanks to my lifestyle

I'd suggest going with the basic Carbs > Protein > Fat diet, so long as it meets your daily nutritional needs. Going on a low carb diet isn't really conducive to climbing (ie: Atkins or Keto) which require less than 50g of carbs per day and high fat/protein intake, and is only really good for melting away the fat through much cardio. Sounds like you have a good selection of foods already, maybe you're just not eating enough or aren't well hydrated. Also helps to wait 1-2 hours to workout after your last meal. Climbing while digesting is just tiring.

Also, endurance on a hike doesn't really compare to the strength and power you would want for v+ bouldering.

For one you could try eating breakfast. Two diversify your meal - add some fatty fish. Add greens and fruits. Drink to stay well hydrated. Nuts to nom on if you get hungry.

I go to the grocery store and buy something I do t know how to cook and learn to cook it like beets

Where does candida fit in this discussion? Do you have a fungal infection?

• complementing

Please.

I hate to admit it but the Candida thing is all heresay. My friends asserted that most people have an overabundance of it and I just went with what they said. I had no diagnostic and I didn't research it at all. It just made logical sense in my pea brain and it also sounded correct to not eat refined sugar ever again. I just started cooking my own food, for the first time in my 31 years, about 6 months ago so now I have options to tailor my diet to my needs. I'm not naturally able to climb V8's, I've been working VERY hard to get to this point. I started climbing when I was 26 and I'm a bit thicker than a normal boulderer so any weight I can lose without sacrificing health is optimal. Otherwise my shoulders get stressed and my recovery time keeps me from pushing my limits. I just wanted to get my ecosystem better because I know it must be kinda bad with all the sugar I've eaten over the years. As I get older I'm mote and more amazed at those 40+ year old guys that climb multiple peaks in Bishop in a day, people that can climb The Nose AND the Rostrum in a day, etc. Where does that energy come from? How do these men's bodies allow them to push that hard at their age? Where does the energy to even desire these endeavors come from? I have to assume it coming from a much cleaner and steady diet source than I have knowledge of. And I want it. I want it bad. I want to set myself up so I'm crushing 5.12 trad when I'm in my 40's and i know elite endeavours require elite diet and attention to my body. I just want to be Wolverine is all.... I know it can be done. There are examples all over California alone.

Jackxc925 wrote:Fruit?

fruit.

Ben and everyone. I'm amazed at everyones willingness to spend time helping me out and typing it all down. You guys are great and there's a lot of info here that's going to help. Ben, I agree with you, I also feel like changing my diet should be a subtle thing. It you change the landscape in your yard, you affect the crickets, bees, dirt and birds. It's all connected and I'm not trying to change anything too fast. Whatever I'm doing here I want to have a low and positive impact on my internal system and be something that I maintain for a long period of time. I'm thinking of the future here. If I was just thinking about now id eat a donut, drink an espresso shot and go out and crush.

aren wrote: Please tell me more about this metabolic acidosis? I just asked my buddy, and he says that's a problem for people with other health care issues. He notes that he's barely eaten a carb in 3 years.

Generally, it is true that having other metabolic issues create a stronger environment for a ketogenic state (metabolic acidosis and ketoacidosis are the same thing) either way it is a build up of too much ketone in the bloodstream. This can occur in both HYPOglycemic scenarios and HYPERglycemic scenarios. It is VERY HARD, if not nearly impossible, for a healthy individual to have a ketogenic state on the hyper side of the stick. This is more commonly an issue for uncontrolled diabetics. On the hypo side however, it is entirely possible to go into ketosis with a controlled drop of blood sugars into severely low levels (sub 50 BSC). This is called carb depletion and is a key to diets such as the Atkins etc. It is also possible to be in ketosis without going into metabolic acidosis. Ketosis is simply a state in which the body is converting fat to ketones, not glycogen. The beauty of this is that once a fat cell is converted into a ketone it can't be reconverted, it must be burned or expelled in the urine. So, when in ketosis, the body is a serious fat burning machine. Bodybuilders have been using these methods for years for final contest prep. The double edged sword is, if gone to far, and the ketones do not get used, the blood becomes acidic and it is possible to die. In a healthy individual simply adding in some sugar will kick the body out of ketosis very quickly, not so much for those with glucose management issues. The hard part about trying to do a ketogenic diet is actually getting the blood sugar down enough to convert. It's a lot harder than it sounds. It takes very little carbohydrate in a normal metabolism to keep the blood sugar at nominal levels. This is why your friend has no problem with a very low carb diet. There is a lot more complexity to all of this when discussing insulin, etc. But as far as what you asked, this should give you enough understanding to be dangerous! ;-)

Hi Jon,
Your post got me thinking about diets in general. Do you know if there is any real evidence that this diet creates a healthier body? In testing a new drug, often times a symptom can be "cured" with a sugar pill. The condition that you are in presently:

Jon Hartmann wrote:Okay. My mind is clear, no anger, peaceful and with sustained (but extremely low) energy.

sound a lot like someone that is suffering from the early stages of malnutrition, with a placebo effect creating "a clear, peace mind".

I could be way off base and you could be reaching nirvana via your sugarless candy. Just a thought

matt c. wrote:Hi Jon, Your post got me thinking about diets in general. Do you know if there is any real evidence that this diet creates a healthier body? In testing a new drug, often times a symptom can be "cured" with a sugar pill. The condition that you are in presently: sound a lot like someone that is suffering from the early stages of malnutrition, with a placebo effect creating "a clear, peace mind". I could be way off base and you could be reaching nirvana via your sugarless candy. Just a thought

Ya Matt, you are a little off base. Food is simply fuel. Think of your car, put shit gas in, it runs poorly, same for our bodies...

Just Solo wrote: Ya Matt, you are a little off base. Food is simply fuel. Think of your car, put shit gas in, it runs poorly, same for our bodies...

Food is more than just "fuel," and your not a fucking car. Food is emotional, familial, ethnic, social, cultural and many other things.
This link came up in another nutrition based thread and I think it would benefit the OP.

nytimes.com/2007/01/28/maga…

Food is emotional, familial, ethnic, social, cultural and many other things.

Single malt scotch ticks all these boxes. But I must admit I've had to lower my intake during running...

How about some common sense

Ryan Kempf wrote: Food is more than just "fuel," and your not a fucking car. Food is emotional, familial, ethnic, social, cultural and many other things. This link came up in another nutrition based thread and I think it would benefit the OP. nytimes.com/2007/01/28/maga…

No, EATING, is all of those things. Not the food. At its most basic level, food is fuel. It is calories, units of heat, that we utilize to run our various systems. It can be good or bad. If you think you can fuel your body well based on all the above, go for it. Or, moderate those emotional, cultural, etc. influences and put good nutrition in your body... It really is way easier than we tend to make it in our society with all the BS out there. Moderation as a whole is key, as well as reasonable portion control. Figure out what works best for YOUR body and crank it up...

many well known top level athletes are on diets that don't cause a sharp insulin spike and the general consensus is also that it takes 1 to 2 months (more if you are older; i am in my 20s) for the body to adjust to using more ketone for energy. For myself, I replace all simple carbs with more complex carbs, and extract energy from foods that have high nutritional values but comparatively low carb, e.g. green vegetables, lentils, kidney beans. I also have extremely high metabolism (140lb, 5'8, as little body fat as i can imagine; yet i used to eat whatever i wanted and a lot of it); this dietary change has not caused me to have changes in my body weight, but at the beginning I did notice lower energy levels. I pushed through with further protein supplement and lots of avocados, eggs and cheese. Now i feel great.
Some people have the notion that low-carb diet is for people who want to lose weight, but as i said, i was already in very good shape physically and this diet hasn't caused me to lose any weight, but i feel stronger and healthier. I am also a medical student and have studied nutritional biochemistry quite a lot and have discussed with PhD biochemists who are themselves experimenting with and researching these subjects. So it has a bit of scientific backing, but more so I wanted to share it as a personal experience.

Just Solo wrote: Ya Matt, you are a little off base. Food is simply fuel. Think of your car, put shit gas in, it runs poorly, same for our bodies...

My point was that if Jon is on the diet for a "clear mind, no anger, peaceful and with sustained energy" maybe he figure out if the specific diet is making these changes or just the fact that he is on the diet that caused it.

I am always skeptical of mood changes to a diet, because the very act of dieting changes your mood. So in that light i looked it up. I found that if you are bio-polar, this diet is great to stabilize your mood(1). However, for the rest of us, this diet appears to cause cognitive impairments and possibly mood disruptions (2,3,6).

So my point is, if Jon is having a reduction in energy in this type of diet, it might be worth it to look at another diet. There is a good chance that you can reach your Nirvana with a different diet that also gives you energy. In one study looking at behavioral changes from diets said "Regardless of diet, participants experienced significant is improvement in a broad range of symptoms"(4).

climbnplay wrote: i feel stronger and healthier. I am also a medical student and have studied nutritional biochemistry quite a lot and have discussed with PhD biochemists who are themselves experimenting with and researching these subjects. So it has a bit of scientific backing, but more so I wanted to share it as a personal experience.

Did you find scientific backing an increased effect on mood? I didn't see any biochemical evidence that a ketogenic diet has CNS levels or brain function. Unless you count rats on the ketogenic diet, which you have to admit, is quite thin.
Also, isn't there some evidence that there is no improvement in strength from this diet? (5). Maybe your perceived improvement was caused by the cognitive disruption that you are suffering from. :)

1- Med Hypotheses. 2001 Dec;57(6):724-6.
The ketogenic diet may have mood-stabilizing properties.

2-Low-carbohydrate weight-loss diets. Effects on cognition and mood
Kristen E. D’Ancia
3-Ketogenic diet effects on cognition, mood, and psychosocial adjustment in children D. A. J. E. Lambrechts
4- The Effects of a Low-Carbohydrate Ketogenic Diet and a Low-Fat Diet on Mood, Hunger, and Other Self-Reported Symptoms F. Joseph McClernon
5-Ketogenic diet does not affect strength performance in elite artistic gymnasts.
Paoli A
6- Low-carbohydrate weight-loss diets. Effects on cognition and mood
Kristen E. D’Anci

matt c. wrote: My point was that if Jon is on the diet for a "clear mind, no anger, peaceful and with sustained energy" maybe he figure out if the specific diet is making these changes or just the fact that he is on the diet that caused it. I am always skeptical of mood changes to a diet, because the very act of dieting changes your mood. So in that light i looked it up. I found that if you are bio-polar, this diet is great to stabilize your mood(1). However, for the rest of us, this diet appears to cause cognitive impairments and possibly mood disruptions (2,3). So my point is, if Jon is having a reduction in energy in this type of diet, it might be worth it to look at another diet. There is a good chance that you can reach your Nirvana with a different diet that also gives you energy. In one study looking at behavioral changes from diets said "Regardless of diet, participants experienced significant is improvement in a broad range of symptoms"(4). Did you find scientific backing an increased effect on mood? I didn't see any biochemical evidence that a ketogenic diet has CNS levels or brain function. Unless you count rats on the ketogenic diet, which you have to admit, is quite thin. Also, isn't there some evidence that there is no improvement in strength from this diet? (5). Maybe your perceived improvement was caused by the cognitive disruption that you are suffering from. :) 1- Med Hypotheses. 2001 Dec;57(6):724-6. The ketogenic diet may have mood-stabilizing properties. 2-Low-carbohydrate weight-loss diets. Effects on cognition and mood Kristen E. D’Ancia 3-Ketogenic diet effects on cognition, mood, and psychosocial adjustment in children D. A. J. E. Lambrechts 4- The Effects of a Low-Carbohydrate Ketogenic Diet and a Low-Fat Diet on Mood, Hunger, and Other Self-Reported Symptoms F. Joseph McClernon 5-Ketogenic diet does not affect strength performance in elite artistic gymnasts. Paoli A

My point was VERY simplistic on purpose. Yes, food can effect your mood, your sense of well being, your hormonal balance, etc, etc, etc. However, in the end, we are what we eat.

Also, be careful to use select references...

1... Key word... MAY.
3... Children we are not discussion children... Generally they have different needs as they are developing etc.
4... This also included low fat in the equation. We are not discussing a low fat diet scenario, quite the opposite.
5...the thought is a ketogenic diet has a negative effect on strength. Not necessarily. Calories play a large role here.

Understand, there is a misconception in this entire discussion. The OP is NOT on a ketogenic diet. A low carb intake yes, ketogenic, no. They are ENTIRELY different. Basically, his diet should be considered an elimination diet, by which he is trying to discover the potential for food sensitivities. Eggs, dairy, sugar, soy, wheat, corn, and peanuts, are generally considered the big seven. If one has a sensitivity to one, or more of these, taking them out of the diet can most certainly create a sense of well being. Think of it as feeling sick (but possibly not being aware) vs feeling vibrant and healthy. The topic, frankly, is a bit too weighty for a climbing forum, we should all be out getting after it! It could be discussed ad nauseam. But it's always fun to discuss!

Nutrition nerdity is the new training nerdity.

Just Solo wrote: Also, be careful to use select references... 1... Key word... MAY.

There is number randomized studies that show this diet has a mood stabilizing effect on people with bi-polar disorder.

3. Yes, i agree, some of us are not children. However, if a diet changes behavior in kids, it is evidence of the mood altering properties of diet change. This is evidence that food and diet change is not "simply fuel" but has drastic psychosomatic consequences. I thought it was useful to explore the mood effect of ketogenic diet because it is well documented.

4. The only paper i saw on the ketogenic diet's effect on strength, showed there was no effect. Do you know of evidence of strength increase because of it?

The OP reported a drastic decrease in energy level because of a change in diet. A diet similar is shown to have adverse effect, but the advice is to just hang in there. The logic is... before this diet you felt sick( but may not have know you were sick?) and this will make you better. haha

Just Solo wrote: The topic, frankly, is a bit too weighty for a climbing forum, we should all be out getting after it!

you are right, way to heady. I am going to go indulge in my whisky and pizza diet