Finger injuries and 5.12+

Last year, I found myself sport climbing. Being a 11+ trad climber (or 12s at the creek) I could do pretty good on 11+ sport stuff right away, but it was definitely a different muscle/ technique set I've had to strengthen up. Now, I'm climbing mid 12, and projecting 12+, and it's really tough on the fingers. Seems like everyone I know that is climbing hard stuff has had one, or multiple, finger injuries.

I don't want to injure my fingers. I haven't yet, but they get kinda creaky sometimes, like there are little warning bells going off. And then I stop and rest for a few days, and they get better.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Ways to prevent injuries?

Also, does anyone understand how anyone could climb 5.14? Are there just certain people with superhuman tendon strength? Is that genetic, or growing up in a gym, or do they some sort of secret? How do they climb SO hard, all the time, and not injure themselves?

Thanks.

Evan Belknap wrote: Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Ways to prevent injuries? ... Are there just certain people with superhuman tendon strength? Is that genetic, or growing up in a gym, or do they some sort of secret? How do they climb SO hard, all the time, and not injure themselves? Thanks.

The ingredient you are missing here is time. All this stuff takes time. While there are certainly some genetic freaks out there, for the most part people work into higher grades and smaller holds over years/decades. Your body, especially the delicate small finger tendons that we like to abuse, needs a really long time to properly adapt.

Too much, too intense, too soon is the classic situation for injury in any sport. If you push your body past it's limits a little bit at a time, that is good...your body will adapt and you will get stronger. If you push it way past its limits, before it is ready, you will get hurt. This is how I broke my foot last November, by increasing my running load way too quickly (moron...). For you, you may be doing something similar to your fingers.

Basically, you need to let your body adapt before pushing it too hard. There are a few things you can do. One is to dial back the fingery sport climbing intensity for a bit, to build a stronger base. If projecting 12d threatens injury, then perhaps you need to build up your base of 12b and 12c first, to get ready for trying harder routes. Or, find 12d's to climb on for now that are less tweaky/fingery. The second thing you should do is to train. The basic idea is that if you jump straight in to trying to sport climb as hard as you can on small crimps/pockets, you will get hurt. If you spend a winter (or a decade, for that matter) using the hangboard to carefully, gradually, and safely build up your strength on those holds, you are much less likely to hurt yourself I won't go into this too much, since someone more qualified is likely to answer shortly. In the meantime, read every word written on these two blogs: lazyhclimbingclub.wordpress… powercompanyclimbing.com/ Both comment occasionally on the idea of training to prevent injury.

Lastly, although I have not climbed there, it sounds like a lot of the sport climbing in NM is some hatefully tweaky volcanic climbing. Just be aware that there is plenty of hard sport climbing out there that you won't hurt your fingers on...but you won't find it at Cochiti...

Listen to your body... I really think this is the best thing you can do.

Background:

As a fairly new climber, I'm walking on a razor's edge with how hard I'm climbing/training to climb. April 14' will mark the start of my third year climbing, and I'm currently projecting 5.12/5.12+ at the New & Red River Gorges.

It's a really fine line - trying to climb hard fast. Muscles grow/heal quickly due to how their made and maintained. Tendons/ligaments on the other hand heal/strengthen much more slowly (no blood flow). You might have the muscle to hold your body weight by a two finger pocket, but there's no guarantee that your ring finger's A2 is up for the task.

Tips:

I've had more than a few warning signals - and I've listened to almost all of them.

I never tape anything for support. I think that if I feel like I need tape, what I really need is rest.

I also am very careful about training crimp strength. I don't want to over do it. I've never done more than 3 campus board training sessions in a 3 month period. I've only in the last week started working crimpy v7s in the gym. If it hurts (even a little) I stop and do something else.

If I'm going to do something like crimpy v7s, campus board, or hangboard training, I make sure I'm VERY warmed up - even a little pumped/fatigued before I start. I do this to avoid what I mentioned earlier... you're muscles might be able to do more than your tendons/ligaments. So, tire the muscle out some to lesson the load on the tendons/ligaments.

I try to do a lot of low impact/stability exercises. If I carry a jug of milk or my computer bag or lunch bag - I only use one or two fingers. I steer the car/turn the wheel with only my ring finger. Basically, I do what ever I can to lightly stress my fingers whenever possible. I think it helps with blood flow in the area of the tendons and ligaments as well as works the smaller stabilizing muscles and ligaments.

I've also noticed subtle knee issues as I climb harder and do more high compression heel hooking. So, I do very slow high steps with and without weight (barefoot - removes artificial stabilizers).

Thoughts:

I think that genetics has a lot to do with it. There are people out there that are predisposed to having stronger ligaments just like there are people out there that are thin, tall, short, fat, or whatever. Some people's genetics allow them to be huge (Arnold) - some not... (me). But, I also think how your body developed when you're a kid has a lot to do with it too.

I'm pretty sure that every pro climber out there crushing > 14's on a daily bases started climbing as a child. As a kid, your body adapts to it's environment and the stresses you put on it better than any other time in your life. I think that kids that grow up playing video games are less likely to develop excellent core strength and or tendon strength later in life than a kid that grew up in the country splitting wood and doing yard work. Similarly, the country kid is less likely to be able to send 5.14 later on than a kid that grew up climbing...

just my .02

-blanco

Evan Belknap wrote:Last year, I found myself sport climbing. Being a 11+ trad climber (or 12s at the creek) I could do pretty good on 11+ sport stuff right away, but it was definitely a different muscle/ technique set I've had to strengthen up. Now, I'm climbing mid 12, and projecting 12+, and it's really tough on the fingers. Seems like everyone I know that is climbing hard stuff has had one, or multiple, finger injuries. I don't want to injure my fingers. I haven't yet, but they get kinda creaky sometimes, like there are little warning bells going off. And then I stop and rest for a few days, and they get better. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Ways to prevent injuries? Also, does anyone understand how anyone could climb 5.14? Are there just certain people with superhuman tendon strength? Is that genetic, or growing up in a gym, or do they some sort of secret? How do they climb SO hard, all the time, and not injure themselves? Thanks.

Creaky fingers are fine, don't worry about that. If you can scratch yourself without involuntarily howling in pain you're just not pushing it hard enough!

Bouldering always helps training finger strength. Alot of folks may not agree, but i've found that sending a couple boulder grades above my leading ability, then returning to the rope, usually makes me feel more comfortable while placing gear, or clipping bolts from small holds. We are fortunate on the front range to have bouldering areas that tend towards both crimpy, and slopey..Practice what your weakness is close to the ground, go send!

Thanks for the comments, guys. I appreciate it.

In terms of bouldering, I don't like it very much. I feel like bouldering only exacerbates that tweaky finger fear for me. And, honestly I don't find it satisfying enough to be worth the risk.

I understand that point of view very well. I rope climb with a guy who would rather work than go bouldering! Interesting how it shakes out sometimes. I thought I would add that once I bouldered V-9, I felt alot more comfortable of 12+/13-. Only other solution may be indoor board training, but I would assume that you would find this totally unsatisfying...

Yeah, in general, I like the climbing-to-train-for-climbing method. I think JMC has some good advice of just toning it back a bit. I had just careened through my last plateau, so I guess it's smart to realize where the next one might be. It's hard to stop, though; climbing things just gets so ridiculous and wild as it gets harder.

Every time I start projecting 13's my fingers start killing me, it's like my body says "no, you will stay on 12's" I can't physically get past them.

I ruptured two pulleys in back to back years, back when I was just getting into 12's. Both times happened outside, on routes at my limit, on very small thumb-wrapped crimps. Both times happened after at least two consecutive days of climbing. I haven't had any significant injuries in the past few years, however, and I think it's because of a few changes I've made.

- I started to train the full crimp position, two finger pockets, and monos. I find I use hand positions outside that I almost never use in the gym (thumb-wrapping, finger stacking monos, fingernail/credit cards), and actually training those positions has made me more confident when I end up resorting to them outside. I would have preferred to have just gotten stronger from climbing alone, but I just wasn't getting on my outdoor projects with enough frequency (weeks/months often go by) for my hands to get acclimated to hard crimping on tiny holds. I've found that a hang board/pulley system is the safest way to gradually but continuously stress your pulleys and ligaments. I find it _really_ hard to stay motivated to actually do it, but when I do I can definitely tell a difference.

- I try to not climb the hardest routes at the end of the day, or after consecutive days of climbing.

- I try to stay hydrated.

I think taping is really important. Be willing to stop in the middle of a climb and realize you need a ring or two of tape before it's too late. Sometimes a nice tape job feels like cheating!

I've had two finger tendon injuries in my climbing years (though the second time the tendon actually popped/ripped in my wrist). Both times the injury occurred when using my middle and ring finger on shallow two finger pockets without warming up. The second time I had also climbed the day before and was dehydrated from hiking without water and was repeating the move multiple times.

So my advice is be very careful when working shallow/open-handed two finger pockets over and over again especially when already fatigued. And ALWAYS warm up.

And if you are climbing multiple days on, try to make the consecutive days more endurance based and less fingery.

There has been a lot of good advice so far, but I figured I'd submit my perspective.

Sport climbers talk a lot about "the pyramid". This is perhaps the best way of preventing finger injuries. Make sure you've done enough of a given grade before moving to the next grade. There's a reason 8a.nu displays sends in a pyramid format. The more base you have, the less likely you'll get injured.

Also, pay attention to your body. There have been a lot of moves I haven't done, simply because they feel "tweaky" or weird. If a route hurts, don't do it. Move on and find a different route. Climbing any single route is not worth getting injured. There are a lot of 5.13s out there that are not tweaky.

Finally, don't try too hard. I know this sounds strange because pushing your limits is all about trying hard. But only try hard to a point. I see a lot of climbers throwing themselves at moves, screaming, blowing off holds. While this may impress your friends, it's an injury waiting to happen. Take your time, figure out the move, and do it as naturally and efficiently as possible. As an added benefit, this will help refine your beta for the eventual send. If you can't do the move without straining your tendons, then maybe it's time to work on the pyramid.

Another idea is to train using a "straight-finger" vs Crimp. In other words, don't crimp your fingers on tiny holds..There is certainly a ceiling to how far you'll be able to take it, but strengthening the last digit has benefits too.

doug rouse wrote:In other words, don't crimp your fingers on tiny holds..

In other words, don't climb at Smith!

Jay Knower wrote: In other words, don't climb at Smith!

That is a very sensible finger injury prevention strategy.

I think a lot of it boils down to knowing the difference between bad touch & good touch. Just kidding, but somewhat serious. What I mean by that is knowing when I move is too awkward or too tweaky given your ability and the conditions. If you're having a hard time warming up or staying warm, it's generally a bad idea to get on something where there's hard moves off the deck. Also trying the same hard moves over and over again is usually a bad call. Important to keep some variety.

Back to the bad touch part. I spent years towing the line, felling that if it were any harder Id rupture something, and most of the time this was on the hangboard. It's a controlled environment where you're not dealing with sending angst & fear. You can explore your limits there in safe, controlled, and well thought out manner.

For me, all of my injuries have been odd joint or co-lateral ones. Mostly from locking off pockets. Something about that twisting motion.

If you're looking for progressive longevity in climbing id absolutely recommend building a classic pyramid of solid for the grade routes. Otherwise skip all of the above and drive straight to Ten Sleep.

As another climber who is trying to stay healthy long enough to make the jump from the 12+\13- range higher, as well as just climb injury free, this thread is very interesting!

Not to hijack, but I have a question for those of you who have been through the annoying cycle of finger injuries. I am currently taking time off (planning on 2 weeks) to nurse my finger which had bothered me off and on from a partial A2 tear 2 years ago. Anyways, my finger seems to get worse when I stop climbing. Meaning it goes from painful but not debilitating while climbing, to sore all the time after a week and a half of no climbing but light hand exercises. Does this happen to anyone else? It is quite frustrating and make me think that I should just climb through everything, which is how I got here in the first place (and is a bad idea!)

Thanks

Jon Rhoderick wrote:I think taping is really important. Be willing to stop in the middle of a climb and realize you need a ring or two of tape before it's too late. Sometimes a nice tape job feels like cheating!

This is terrible advice, sorry. taping will do nothing but hinder you. taping might help and might feel good, but you are making yourself weaker in the process. By taping you creating false strength (support) for your fingers. it would be equivalent to bench pressing at your max with two spotters helping support weight. you are not actually getting stronger or allowing your fingers to work the way they are meant to. I didn't want to get involved in this conversation, but i felt i must after this comment. if you are at the point you need to tape, you need to work on strengthening your fingers more to handle to forces you are applying to them. Finger board work outs are great ways to do this, but you must do so in a safe way. warm up correctly and do not over work yourself. you must listen to your body. stay hydrated, eat properly and take your time. I have never had any climbing related finger injuries and don't plan on it. there is a lot of really good advice here, listen to it. do not resort to taping to climb harder, you will find yourself on the long list of climbers not climbing due to finger injuries.

just my experience.

I agree on the "if you feel the need to tape, what you really need is rest" philosophy. I've been talking to quite a few people about this now, and the common sense things seem pretty smart and obvious—triangle idea is one of those.

One trustworthy friend recommended hangs (uncrimped) on the smallest holds I could hang onto as safe training. He said if I could hang on for more than ten seconds, I need to move to a smaller hold. Record progress. Drink lots of water. Listen to body.

Ian, it's good to hear that people are prioritizing climbing longevity and still climbing hard.

Perhaps against my better instincts I will clarify myself.
I don't tape for warm ups, I can't think of the last time I've taped for a gym or hangboard session, or that I tape every time I climb. But when I'm working something new, where I might not be hitting a tweaky hold perfectly and might be putting a more dynamic load on a pocket or tiny crimp, I tape up. I believe that warming up well is far more important to avoiding finger injuries than taping is, and the rest your taking is also more important than taping. I tape more often when it's below 50 degrees because it is trickier to keep my tendons warm.
That's merely what works for me.