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Ethics question

chuffnugget · · Bolder, CO · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

you can pound pins in a crack, chalk it until there are white highways up red desert sandstone, drill bolts, anchors... but for the love of god dont make blank rock climbable with removable plastic holds. that would be unethical and makes El VaG weep salty trad tears

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
David Sahalie wrote:you can pound pins in a crack, chalk it until there are white highways up red desert sandstone, drill bolts, anchors... but for the love of god dont make blank rock climbable. that would be unethical.
it could be ethical if it was done on lead though right?
chuffnugget · · Bolder, CO · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

yes. if the OP were to Aid (very trad) the route by pounding in pins every foot, then, after a few freeze and thaw cycles, the pins fall out... voila! you have a seams for fingers. worked on El Cap so it is tradical

Peter Jackson · · Rumney, NH · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 445

Lemme see if I follow: hypothetically speaking, you'd propose adding bolts and holds to a 45-degree overhanging slab of rock, provided that the holds are removed if someone can do it without them. The rock is of low aesthetic quality, on private land owned by a climber.

Assuming all that, you want to know whether the behavior is ethical, right?

In general, if you own the property, then you can do whatever you want with it. If you bolt holds on to it, you've created a neat-o outdoor climbing wall with rock as the base instead of wood.

You have not, however, made any more routes available or created a climbing area. You've made an outdoor gym. Calling it something that it isn't would be the unethical move.

It's possible that you'd destroy a future 5.18a or V21 if you drill in the wrong place. But again, if you own it, that's your prerogative.

Now, if this wall is in an established climbing area, you're making a bad move and likely going to take a lot of heat for it. I don't know of any climbing area anywhere where the local norms allow for holds to be added, removable or otherwise. I wouldn't want to be the guy who tries to move opinion in that direction.

Garret Nuzzo Jones · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 1,436
Dave Emmert wrote: Was that in South Willow Canyon?
Yep. I opted for the 5.10b to the right of that.
rging · · Salt Lake City, Ut · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 210
Peter Jackson · · Rumney, NH · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 445
rging wrote:This
Ugh. I change my prior opinion.

Just don't do it.
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
rging wrote:This
I hope they used SS, it could be dangerous if not. I can tell it was done on lead though, perfect placements of bolts.
Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280
rging wrote:This
!!!! placed next to a perfectly good finger crack? WTF? Must have been done by a sporty , cuz they reject cracks and only see crimps and jugs as climbing life.
chuffnugget · · Bolder, CO · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

oh woodchuck, how ye tauntest so

J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50
VaGenius wrote: Get brilliant sarcasm!
Or a not so brilliant fascist maniac who sues and complains to her admin pimps when confronted, in this case you.

To the OP:

Honestly, if it is on private property, the owner is okay with it, and the holds are removable, I don't see a problem. Actually, I might just replace a few bolts with holds on a local crag and watch people lose their minds for an afternoon; could be fun.
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
J Q wrote: Or a not so brilliant fascist maniac who sues and complains to her admin pimps when confronted, in this case you. To the OP: Honestly, if it is on private property, the owner is okay with it, and the holds are removable, I don't see a problem. Actually, I might just replace a few bolts with holds on a local crag and watch people lose their minds for an afternoon; could be fun.
as much fun as that sounds, the Mtn Proj ethics police already have you covered bud, I'd think twice about that.
camhead · · Vandalia, Appalachia · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,240

Bolting on holds is lame and ugly. It would be better just to chip and drill some holds.

Ryan Watts · · Bishop, CA · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 25
camhead wrote:Bolting on holds is lame and ugly. It would be better just to chip and drill some holds.
This. Worked for The Nose right?
Trevor. · · Boise, ID · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 830

This whole thread is making me think of Tony Yaniro's manufactured routes at Leslie Gulch, OR. It's crazy, he seriously drilled entire sport crags into existence.

J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50
camhead wrote:Bolting on holds is lame and ugly. It would be better just to chip and drill some holds.
Most people are lame and ugly, so what?

It simply comes down to one thing: if you are against plastic holds then you are against progress and beauty, making you an ugly person.

I feel sorry for the ugly people, they know so little.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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