Why monopoints?

I see more and more folks with monos out climbing water ice each season. I overhear climbers professing love for their monos.

I understand that most prefer dual for early season/wet/rotten ice, and that monos have clear advantages mixed climbing, but...

What am I missing out on? Why are monopoints preferred by most/many, even for water ice?

Thanks.

2 words: Precision

I used my oldie Footfang dualies' for decades...then got new boots and new Rambo IV's about 6 years ago and love them. I can pivot a bit on that mono point. Plus the Rambo has so many short accessory front points that take effect when you pivot your footage. Old Dual points would shear out if I was not totally perpendicular. I do miss the solid platform, secure stance that the duals gave me at times. When placed right, they were a total stance for sure. Mono's seem to be meant for fluid movement , be it up or to side. Not sure if I like the calf stabbing heel hooks on them though... I'm not doing wild stuff needing that kind of movement.

A lot of people have switched over to mono points too because of cost. Replacing two front points is a lot less expensive than replacing four.

i think the mono point allows you to drop your heel better and smear on the ice. You can kind of torque your boots like a foot jam.

I do think that monos make easy climbing more difficult and less stable than duals. That said, monos make it easier to climb difficult thin pitches requiring a delicate touch. Not only does my footwork improve, but I don't need to kick as hard, reducing the likelihood of a feature breaking.

When given a choice of improving performance on easy or hard pitches, I'll take the hard climbing every time. Easy ice is still easy.

monos shear out of the ice less because they don't fracture the ice as much. You can draft off your pick holes in them on hard glacier ice and it saves a ton of energy. Also, what everyone else has said. Duals suck!

I don't think I'll ever go back to duals! Mono points sink like an ice tool without the feeling of having to kick out a little ledge like in duals. They're wicked precise when you're trying to stick a little crack or ledge on mixed, and when you pull onto super thin ice they work magic.

I never bent or broke a front point ever on my old first gen. Footfangs,,they were/are still marvelous as a backup set. But for my new Rambos and other mono point cramps seen today, they also have those front flared points off to the side, allowing for more side stances than the perpendicular underside points of older crampons. There are like 10 points of some kind, just under the ball of my foot on my Rambos...compared to the 4 forward ones on old Footfangs, with a few more straight but short teeth under the frame up front. Much more variety of stances possible now. Don't forget the quality of your boots makes a difference too. A soft leather boot won't do as good as a stiff soled boot when both are on a newer crampon. You need that support for a great platform stance.

Tom-o Sapien wrote:2 words: Precision

What's the other word?

I find that for WI 3 or easier slabs of ice, duel point are great; they are more stable, and twice the gripping power over a mono point.

BUT

for steep ice, pillars and mixed monopoints are supreme. you do loose some stability but the precision and flexibility you gain makes up for that.

Now for a first/new ice climbers I would recommend duel points every time. You can always tell when some one has moved to monos too soon before their foot work is solid and they can read the ice well. Their feet blow out way too often. I have seen many noobs thrashing their way up a low angle slab of ice looking like Whiley cyote with the feet skittering all over. 90% of time its monopoints.

As said by others here, the monos offer much more precision on steep pillars, but they really excel in mixed climbing situations, a lot of the easily accesible ice on the front range has a mixed route or two next to the main flows, and being able to effectively climb those while I wait my turn on the ice without switching crampons is a real plus for me,

Thanks for the helpful replies. I can't imagine the extra precision because I have no point of comparison, but I'm excited to find out.

Jeff J wrote: Now for a first/new ice climbers I would recommend duel points every time. You can always tell when some one has moved to monos too soon before their foot work is solid and they can read the ice well. Their feet blow out way too often. I have seen many noobs thrashing their way up a low angle slab of ice looking like Whiley cyote with the feet skittering all over. 90% of time its monopoints.

I don't think it's due to the monopoints, but rather lack of technique. Beginner climbers don't realize that it's the secondary points that bite into ice and give you the stability. There is also the "rock climber" problem - people who are converting from rock climbing, usually have terrible footwork (trying to toe in, edge, drop-knee and stuff). Having said that, monos let you use all that fancy technique on steep icicles and mixed :)

Monopoints are superior over duals when climbing rock hard ice. Monos are great for any grade. Not sure why anyone would feel less secure on a 2 than a 4. WI2 is unsafe dumb shit run it out time for me so...

I would go out and try a pair of monos and make up your own mind. I think you would be able to tell the difference in a couple laps especially if it's really cold out that day.

Oh, and to answer your next question... Cassin Bladerunners are the monopoint crampons to buy. Just don't tell the wife and/or girlfriend how much money there were. They'll figure it out after three weeks of not eating out and staying in on the weekends. By then you have realized it was worth the grief!

my guess is that in a blind crampon test, 9 out of ten people wouldn't be able to tell the difference. but they're unquestionably lighter, which is faster according to everything I read!

Been a dual point'er for many years...and...still like horizontal dual (ala Sabretooths) for some conditions...say...thin ice on less than vert cobbles.

But...finally trying a pair again (anyone remember Grivel Tridents?)...I like 'em.

For me...drafting pick holes is pretty sweet. Low volume profile nice for narrow columns and those icicly conditions.

I like that I can set my foot in a pick hole and just nudge into it getting yhose lower secondary points to engage.

I'm still warming up to them...

I remember the Tridents!! I had a pair to go with my pink fat handled Rambos. The Tridents were the monopoint version of the old 2Fs.

I started on horizontal dual points, got some foot fangs, ditched those for 2Fs, graduated to Rambos then Rambo monos. Lately I've come back around to dual point Lynxs. The only time I've missed my monopoint darts is on rock with thin cracks.

Dual points are good for two things: 1) high altitude mountaineering (mono points wouldn't cut it on most uber high mountains) and 2) flipping hot dogs on the grill.

Like Brian, I've used dual points for decades and was insulted when monos came out, however, after I started using them a time or three out, I was hooked. I only use monos and they are superb on bullet & most other types of ice (except rotten).

Someone mentioned heel spurs. These have gone the way of the dinosaur and are now banned in many professional competitions.

My preference is the BD stainless steel (big advantage in spite of the added weight) Stingers. Stingers (like most monos) are designed to "ballet" your way up, for example, step on small weaknesses and NOT pound the hell out of the ice (or mixed climbing....can't be beat).

Others in this string have pointed out aspects of the following:

Someone made a good point: it's about TECHNIQUE rather than particular mono v. duals. One of the worst mistakes beginners to expert climbers make is kicking the crampon at a "flat" or "even" direction to the ice surface. If you do that, your calves are going to get pumped but moreover, what happens when your next move requires your foot to "lever up". If you have placed the crampon/boot/leg into a "flat" configuration, you will have nothing to "stand up on". Makes sense? Best technique is to kick your foot in with your heel slightly LOWER than your toe. Seems weird, eh? But less calve pump AND it gives you the ability to raise up onto the ball of your foot and propel yourself higher (and get higher sticks).

THIS TAKES A LOT OF PRACTICE....A LOT OF IT. As a visual, hold the main body of your crampon (mono or dual) on a perpendicular plane in front of your eyes. Look at the direction of the front points (esp. w/duals). They are slanted down, right? What the....? Ask yourself how the crampon is going to be stuck into the ice if the points are "down" (they aren't, ideally). To exaggerate it a bit, you are kicking the ice somewhat "bluntly". And then you'll kick and kick and kick until you have a safe platform (except the expert dual users).

NOW, move the crampon body's heel DOWN so the front points are truly perpendicular to the plane of the ice and move your hands that are holding the crampon in a forward motion. Wow.....now they go in straight, however, heel is (properly) down at least an inch or so, where it should be. Also, notice the next long teeth (first ones back) of the front point(s). They are angled (the tips) forward, right? So imagine a technically correct kick forward with front point(s) perpendicular to the ice surface AND how the secondary points ALSO are in contact with the ice.

This was not a design accident.....someone figured this out long ago. In summary, regardless of duals/mono, you are actually engaging more than one, rather 3 front points (mono) but 4 (dual), respectively. (This ignores the much smaller points that most crampons have in the front, next to the main ones). This may take you several seasons to perfect or even to get the basic hang of it. Very unnatural for noobs (and some experts), likely including me. When I get tired, I get sloppy, the worst time to be so.

I, like many in this forum and/or are reading this, likely have to remind themselves now and again re: this technique. Even when I'm barbecuing with my old duals.

So, think about that technique when pondering crampon types. I agree with Kirby: try several types; take both kinds to a crag on the same day....shops are happy to accommodate you. Don't try one and then another on separate days.

Like many who climb ice crags as well as expeditions, we have a lot to choose from.....too many.

here are some heavy weights weighing in on the subject:

Kitty calhoun and friends:
chickswithpicks.net/tech-ta…

and then there's this, from a thread a year ago on the same topic

Jeff J wrote:Lower angle ice, longer pitches, or late season where the ice is getting soft or thin ice. dule points are the way to go, For steep sustained ice, hard ice, delicate ice. Monos point all the way.

Jeff J wrote:From Will Gadd's Blog how ever I quote "Dual point crampons are vastly superior to mono points for 90 percent of ice climbing. I can tell from about 200 yards away if anyone (with very rare exceptions like Raph and a few others) is wearing monos or dual frontpoints. The mono-wanna-be-master’s feet will be blowing a lot more. I wear monos for some mixed climbing, but if I could only have one pair of crampons it would be dual cyborgs"

I used monos on ice for a few years, not any more. I like the stability of duals on ice. I still use monos for rock or mostly rock.

So if a pitch is mostly ice, I'll go duals, if it's mostly rock, I'll go monos. You should experiment and see what you feel most comfortable with.