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Anyone have experience with these bolt hangers???

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349
"DON´T paint hangers.
You are ALWAYS making them potentially less safe by reducing their corrosion resistance and inspectability."


Well, "Damnit Jim!".

Dude's no doubt right and makes a very valid point.

That does it for me! Fuck the PAINT! Be cheaper and less work/hassle anyway. Plus it apparently ups the safety factor some.

Good enough!

THANK YOU JIM and 20kn!
Greg Barnes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,060

Yes, of course Jim is right…but he deals with wet climates, limestone, etc.

In the western US there are a number of places where shiny bolts will produce bans on rock climbing, so sometimes paint is necessary. Particularly if you use stainless steel bolts in dry desert climates on granite & sandstone.

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

So it's between making the hangers a little less visible vs making them a little bit safer.

OK, here the fuck we go AGAIN!

DAMNIT GREG! LOL!

I get your point TOO of course.

So here's my take:

When in wetter climates, DON'T paint!

Areas that dictate lower profile hangers, PAINT!

Dry, desert, OBSCURE routes, no NEED to paint.

Brian · · North Kingstown, RI · Joined Sep 2001 · Points: 804
Jim Titt wrote: Well, that´s his opinion. My opinion as an engineer:-)with vastly more experience both with stainless steel and climbing AND as a manufacturer is DON´T paint hangers. You are ALWAYS making them potentially less safe by reducing their corrosion resistance and inspectability.
..."making them 'potentially' less safe..." Is that reducing their strength from 25KN to 24KN? Or is that making them snap after 100 falls? Pure speculation. Does anyone know of any real-world documented cases of a hanger (painted or not) breaking after a climber falling on it? I would think (not very scientific) that the aluminum biner would break first.

You know what the say about engineers? You can always tell and engineer but you can't tell them much. :-)
Mike Bond · · Kentucky · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 3,191

I really like the madrock hangers a lot. They are smaller and very dull in appearance. On grey limestone they cause very little visual impact.

They are also stainless and appear to be of great quality all around. Fixe hangers are very nice, but visually they are more impactful. I haven't tried climb-techs, but I don't like shiny hangers. They look as shiny as some of the pagan stainless hangers I have seen. I have never liked the metolius stainless hanger as I have seen several with light surface rust on them (yes, in the desert). That makes me wonder about the quality of their stainless.

In good limestone, a 304SS KB3 and a Madrock 304SS Hanger is my first choice. Here in the desert, I expect they will last generations.

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Greg Barnes wrote:Yes, of course Jim is right…but he deals with wet climates, limestone, etc. In the western US there are a number of places where shiny bolts will produce bans on rock climbing, so sometimes paint is necessary. Particularly if you use stainless steel bolts in dry desert climates on granite & sandstone.
Sure, its a judgement that the installer has to make whether to risk the wrath of a park ranger or potential failure.
Not a decision a manufacturer can make though, we can only work to best practice to avoid liability issues.
Glue-ins have less visual impact anyway:-)
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Brian wrote: Does anyone know of any real-world documented cases of a hanger (painted or not) breaking after a climber falling on it?
Yes
Brian · · North Kingstown, RI · Joined Sep 2001 · Points: 804
Jim Titt wrote: Yes
Well if you said it on the Internet it must be true. Verifiable proof?
Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

I do find it interesting seeing climbers arguing against additional safety being added into the mix.

Especially since it basically means catering to the masses = non climbers.

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349
"Well if you said it on the Internet it must be true"

If HE in particular said it, you're about to find out that it IS true.

LOL!
mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885

To reiterate what Jim said, Glue Ins are BY FAR the lowest visual impact bolt you can put in the rock. They have no flat surface and that, combined with their shape and installed orientation means theres almost no reflective surface perpendicular to typical lines of sight. Often the glue color is the way you find them and matching glue color to rock type will help with that.

The worst offenders visually speaking are PS hangers (not me) and the ClimbTech SS ones. Both have an extremely reflective finish, almost mirror like. Because of access issues on my local limestone and the approach trail angle, any shiny hangers really stood out. I tested out some CT SS hangers and ended up painting them to reduce visual impact. Fixe SS and Glue Ins (my preferred setups) posed very little issue.

For painting, which I typically avoid, I do a few things that I HOPE will reduce corrosion issues. First, I only paint the visible surface and avoid painting the backside where more moisture is likely to build up. I also try to place them in low moisture areas so they don't remain damp for long. Lastly, I use LATEX spray paint which seems to hold up better and doesn't require any funky primers etc etc. Give it plenty of days to dry/cure and it's better than any Rustoleum I've tried. Not perfect and it will chip but better.

Again though, I try and avoid painting whenever possible as SS and Granite/Limestone aren't typically a bad combo. On brown rock / sandstone Glue Ins will probably provide the better visual solution (and anchor!)

mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885
Locker wrote:"Well if you said it on the Internet it must be true" If HE in particular said it, you're about to find out that it IS true. LOL!
Laugh - Arguing with Jim on technical issues is almost always a poor choice. About the only thing I might easily disagree with Jim about that's climbing related is the best after-climb BEER!
Brian · · North Kingstown, RI · Joined Sep 2001 · Points: 804
Locker wrote:"Well if you said it on the Internet it must be true" If HE in particular said it, you're about to find out that it IS true. LOL!
Well I don't really doubt that hangers and bolts have failed under the conditions described as corrosive (salt water). My point really is there are lots of painted hangers throughout the northeast in wet yet non-corrosive environments and they have been there many seasons and they are in good shape and no failures I've ever heard reported. I don't know Jim but it sounds like his word is the word of God. Hiding anchors in the northeast is not as important as the safety issue but pretty damn important.
Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

It was enlightening to find out that Primer paint has an etching quality to it.

"Lastly, I use LATEX spray paint which seems to hold up better"

^^^

That seems like a good idea. Also like the idea about not painting the entire hanger which has been my method on the shiny stuff. No need on the Mad Rock.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

I always appreciate some good technical advice, especially with 20Kns pics up above. Notice the SS is still pretty shiny on the outside and the metal doesnt seem to have swelled up too much where it broke.

We came across some stainless hangers on some carbon steel bolts about 2 months ago that had WAY worse surface rust than those pics of broken hangers had. Apparently they are only 2-3 years old, I'm glad I wasnt hooked into those.

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Brian wrote: Well if you said it on the Internet it must be true. Verifiable proof?
Just Google Leeper hanger failure or Kong or......
Brian · · North Kingstown, RI · Joined Sep 2001 · Points: 804
Jim Titt wrote: Just Google Leeper hanger failure or Kong or......
I did Google this and it doesn't really have anything to do with painting SS hangers or corrosion of SS hangers. The Kong-Bonatti hangers are not stainless and are reported to not even be alloyed with enough steel to be magnetic. The Leeper hangers, as most know, are ancient alloy-steel bolt hangers made by Ed Leeper between 1962 and 1984. They are not stainless either. Poor examples.
shotwell · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 0
Brian wrote: I did Google this and it doesn't really have anything to do with painting SS hangers or corrosion of SS hangers. The Kong-Bonatti hangers are not stainless and are reported to not even be alloyed with enough steel to be magnetic. The Leeper hangers, as most know, are ancient alloy-steel bolt hangers made by Ed Leeper between 1962 and 1984. They are not stainless either. Poor examples.
Which is a fine response, except that your question was:

Brian wrote:Does anyone know of any real-world documented cases of a hanger (painted or not) breaking after a climber falling on it? I would think (not very scientific) that the aluminum biner would break first.
There is a case of a Titanium bolt breaking in Texas, which is a non-corrosive environment. Obviously there are many documented cases of anchor failure in corrosive environments.
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Brian wrote: I did Google this and it doesn't really have anything to do with painting SS hangers or corrosion of SS hangers. The Kong-Bonatti hangers are not stainless and are reported to not even be alloyed with enough steel to be magnetic. The Leeper hangers, as most know, are ancient alloy-steel bolt hangers made by Ed Leeper between 1962 and 1984. They are not stainless either. Poor examples.
There are pictures of failed painted hangers higher on this page.
Maybe it would be easier if you tell us the answer you want to hear and we´ll see if we can work out a suitable question for you to post.
mattm · · TX · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,885
shotwell wrote: There is a case of a Titanium bolt breaking in Texas, which is a non-corrosive environment. Obviously there are many documented cases of anchor failure in corrosive environments.
I believe the Texas Ti bolt failure was attributed to improper placement. It was a "P" bolt from Ushuba (I think) and the placement resulted in repeated shaft flexing and eventual failure (shaft snapped). It didn't have anything to do with corrosion.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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