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Choosing Tagline

Original Post
Roman G · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 205

I will be using this tagline for retrieving main rope after a rappel. No hauling just rope retrieval. Using biner block ( aka Reepschnur rappel ). Connecting via EDK or double fishermans the rope and the tagline.

Just to clarify, I can go as low as 5mm tagline? Since this will only be used to pull down main rope?

For a 60M rope how long of a tagline do I need to buy, accounting for rope stretch during rappel? I'm assuming 65M tagline?

Will probably use just accessory cord EMS sells of about 5mm or 6mm for the tagline instead of buying a dedicated tagline that Sterling Ropes sells. Being the same price do you think its better to buy a specialty made tagline (such as this : sterlingrope.com/product/67… ) vs using regular accessory cord that ems sells?

I do use 8mm accessory cord that EMS sells by foot (by Sterling I believe) for my cordallette.

Brian · · North Kingstown, RI · Joined Sep 2001 · Points: 804

I use 65 m x 7mm tagline. Anything smaller than that may be hard to pull. If you get stuck rope you are up the creek so I wouldn't use it where you have high probability of a stuck rope, like Red Rock. You may be better off using doubles.

Jeff Gicklhorn · · Tucson, AZ · Joined May 2008 · Points: 295

I have used the Imlay Canyon Gear 6mm Pull Cord before:
imlaycanyongear.com/ropes.php
summithut.com/products/6mm-…
Got mine for $65 at Neptune in 2010

It packs down into the bottom 1/3 of my 12L day pack, and weighs virtually nothing, and works extremely well with a biner block It can be a little difficult to pull initially, and gloves are useful due to the small diameter (but not necessary). Only once in 3 years of use have I had to extend it with a prussik and long sling to retrieve it , and in an emergency situation it's just beefy enough that I would rappel on it (autoblock of course).

The Pheonix · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 60

Kinda bothered by this statement though, "Imlay Canyon Gear made it sturdy - 2200 lbs worth - but NOT sturdy enough to rappel on."

rging · · Salt Lake City, Ut · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 210
The Phoenix wrote:Kinda bothered by this statement though, "Imlay Canyon Gear made it sturdy - 2200 lbs worth - but NOT sturdy enough to rappel on."
Means they engineered it to do the job but didn't test it for that. Guess they don't want the liability hassles or just think its a bad idea to make a practice of.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

personally i use a 8mm half rope ... if it gets stuck you can lead back up ...

;)

Optimistic · · New Paltz · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 450

Anecdotal, but a buddy of mine who used to use a very thin tag line like that (his was 6mm I think) said tangling was a massive and ongoing pain with such a thin line. Maybe someone with direct experience should confirm that for you, though...

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812

Imlay Canyon Gear 6mm Pull Cord here.

As for tangles, there's more to it than the below but here's a couple things I do:

a) I have a very light bag I keep the tag line in ... ideally stacked and ready to pay out for the first rap; it stays in this bag unless actually rap'ing; it goes back in the bag immediately after rapping ... avoids unnecessary wear and tear.

b) first person to rap attaches the free end of tag line to their belay loop; second person pays out the tag line as first person raps on the fixed single line; can be troublesome if tag line does not pay out cleanly;

c) once first person is down or re-anchored, the rest of the tag line is paid out.

Somewhere in the above, the fat line gets attached to the skinny line - biner break is good.

And resetting for the next rap (if any) is a little more cumbersome and time-consuming the way I do it - haven't found a way I like that is as fast as rapping with two ropes of the same diameter. It really helps if both partners know the plan/system and can help at any point along the way.

Edit to add: Bought my tag line pre-cut to 60 meters. I realize that it could be shorter than the fat line when the fat line is weighted. Cuidado!

Edit again: I've clarified a little about the use of a fixed single line rap and about both partners need to know and help with the system.

john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

I just bought a sterling 65m x 7mm...

Moritz B. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 185

I use a 7mm aramid 70m line. Super light and super strong.

Greg Gavin · · SLC, UT · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 888
Optimistic wrote:Anecdotal, but a buddy of mine who used to use a very thin tag line like that (his was 6mm I think) said tangling was a massive and ongoing pain with such a thin line. Maybe someone with direct experience should confirm that for you, though...
bingo. I have a 6mm tagline, and it's constantly tangled or hanging up on low angle terrain. I recently acquired a 8mm static line, and it's much better that the 6 in every way. Has more uses (hauling or simul rapping), and is never tangled.
Roman G · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 205

Thanks for the suggestions all.

The idea of buying a Half rope appeals to me more and more now...

I will be using the Half rope (one strand) as a tagline and my main lead line 10.x mm as a rappel line. The reason why using Half rope as a tagline vs just a regular tagline is that as mentioned previously, if the rope gets stuck on the pull down after rappelling, I can use the single strand half rope as a lead line to lead back up and undo the stuck rope (provided ofcorse the route allows it to be lead by me)

What do you think?

Also, if choosing Half Rope as tagline, and the rope gets stuck and im forced to lead up on this single strand of Half Rope, what belay device is capable of holding a thin Half Rope ( say something like Metolius Monster 7.8mm )? Perhaps an ATC with TWO biners for more friction (vs one as we normally do)

and

What diameter Half Rope would you recommend for this? probably will get Sterling Half Rope. These are what I found, do recommend the better choise:

1: Sterling Evolution Duetto 8.4 Half Rope
sterlingrope.com/product/15…

2. Sterling Fusion Photon 7.8 mm
sterlingrope.com/product/15…

3.Sterling Marathon Half 8.8mm
sterlingrope.com/product/15…

and than there is Nano

4. Sterling Fusion Nano 9.2mm
being certified as a Single rope might help the confidence a bit more. But frankly, I would trust a NEW never fallen on skinny 8mm half rope to hold a leader fall (Im not talking run out 20-30 footers ofcorse)
sterlingrope.com/product/15…

and in the event that something happens to my main line and I need to rappel using single Strand Half rope I would still want to be able to do that. In case I need to bail or main lead line gets damaged during the climb, I can still use the half rope as a Rappel line or lead line to finish a route (we are talking multipitch ofcorse)

Looks like Fusion Nano (though expensive) might be a better choice for me though I still want to be able to trail it or have my second carry it.

john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

You get more stretch with a 8mm double rope, so teaming it with a 10mm gives unequal stretch ..not a huge problem but it can be a pain..static eliminates this.

My 7mm was $81

David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70

Roman, why not use a pair of half ropes, or twins?

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812

David's question is worth giving a little thought.

There are a lot of factors in making the choice. For your typical climb:

  • how long are the approaches?
  • how long is the route?
  • do pitches tend to wander?
  • do the raps usually require two ropes?
  • does the possibility of rock fall or sharper edges make a thicker diameter rope appealing?
  • are your partners comfortable with double-rope belay technique?
  • are your partners comfortable with double-rope lead techniques?
  • are you usually climbing as a roped party of two?

You've probably answered some of these. Just. Thought I would get as many down in one place as I can recall.
Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812

P.S. I am not saying you need to know the answers to all of these types of questions projecting out to 5 years. Just enough to tip the scales for you one way or the other. Maybe you are already there.

Roman G · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 205

This is primarily for my Red Rocks trip this March. My partner does not know how to double-rope belay, but im sure we can get that system packed before the trip if need be. Still I would prefer to lead on a thick 10.x rope.

Price wise, tagline or a half rope are similar in price with half rope being a bit more money its the BULK and WEIGHT savings im also keeping in mind (my second would either carry it in a backpack or I would trail it off my haul loop.

john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

IMO doubles are a pain 95% of the time. I know the reasons people use them and in 30+ years of climbing, I have used doubles MAYBE 5 times.

Also a LOT of $$$ a pair of mammut Genesis would be close to $400 ?

Optimistic · · New Paltz · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 450
john strand wrote:You get more stretch with a 8mm double rope, so teaming it with a 10mm gives unequal stretch ..not a huge problem but it can be a pain..static eliminates this. My 7mm was $81
Good deal! Where did you pick that up?
Jan Tarculas · · Riverside, Ca · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 917

Since this is particullary for your trip in March in Red Rocks, what routes are you planning on doing? Do they even require double rope raps? I've found out a lot of routes that required double 60s worked find with a 70 meter..(ie Crimson Chrysalis, levitation 29). Maybe just upgrading to a 70M will work just find.

JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115
john strand wrote:IMO doubles are a pain 95% of the time...in 30+ years of climbing, I have used doubles MAYBE 5 times.
Maybe you find them to be a pain because you never really got used to using them?

Granted, 2 ropes are always a bigger hassle than 1. For a routes that follows straight-in crack systems, and which can be either walked off or rapped with 1 rope, taking a single rope is the way to go. However, if you need 2 ropes to get down, I think that doubles are a good choice. Once you get used to it, a double rope system can be less hassle than a single rope and a tagline. Also, there are many benefits to the double rope system, especially with regard to rope drag on wandering pitches. Doubles also are really useful when building the anchor from the lead line(s). I figure that if you are going to have to bring a second rope up with you, you might as well make that rope useful on the way up.

A big benefit of a tagline system, however, is that you can use it to haul the pack using the 7 mm tagline and a microtraxion. This isn't practical to apply to easier/slabbier/highly featured routes, since hauling is a pain on that terrain and climbing a 5.7 pitch with a pack on isn't a problem. However, for steeper/harder multipitch routes, it is a godsend to not have to climb with shoes/water/pack weighing you down, but still be able to have food, water, and a belay jacket with you one the route.

What I would not do is what the OP is suggesting. A 10+ mm lead line with e 8.5-9 mm tag line? Uggghh. That is a lot of rope weight, both for the approach and the climb, and is overkill for what you need. If you are going to get a new rope system for long routes, think 9.4 mm lead line and 7 mm tagline, or two 8.4 mm doubles. Climbing is more fun when you aren't fighting against a massive amount of rope weight at the end of a pitch.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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