Climbing an art to you?

escape artistry, tell me the face push is not artistic

youtube.com/watch?v=0A13KQU…

VaGenius wrote: This is why we can't agree on anything. That's like saying the art of cooking is what you do with a toaster. How limiting.

So there is no limt to your 'art'; is that why you project yourself as a hot model to the climbing world? Inner VaG urges perhaps?

I left dump this morning that was a thing of beauty. I could have let loose with one long snake, but instead I pinched it off a few times; therefore, this literal crap now art?

If you could define, according to your own artistic expression where you would like to start and end the climb, that may be art. but the rock dictates the parameters: start and the bottom and go to the top. people will have different beta, but this beta is a means to an end. some people will climb the climb 'better' through climbing efortlessly, but at the core the goal is to get to the chains.. not art.

or maybe my expressionistic art is to fall and scream trajically every time at the crux? its science too bro?!

...lol, i'll gaze at my bellybutton for a while and get back to you rock artists.

david said: I left dump this morning that was a thing of beauty. I could have let loose with one long snake, but instead I pinched it off a few times; therefore, this literal crap now art?

pictures? just kidding. I think you bring up solid points for sure. im pondering your "rock dictates" statement...i am going to sit with this. thank you for bringing up that point: creation/options versus acceptance (or whats there, it is what it is, etc) or no options. sometimes the rock only "gives" us the bare minimum and thats what we have to deal with. sometimes there are many options (for holds) and I get to choose how I go (grab that jug or skip it? take the 5.12 crimpy hold or the 5.8 jam?).

solid points to add to the mix.

Well if this is art...

youtube.com/watch?v=I9lmvX0…

NSFW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One thing is certain. I am starting to hate art.

why RGing? whats going on?

David Sahalie wrote:I left dump this morning that was a thing of beauty. I could have let loose with one long snake, but instead I pinched it off a few times; therefore, this literal crap now art?

hell yeah!

Climbing is more artistic when the gear is minimized. If you are carrying a pack and jingling your way up a crack with a rack of clunky gear, that might be art, but it is boring and shitty art.

The artistic ability of the climber increases with his proficiency, thus, people climbing 5.8 have very little sense of how to make their climbing into art and people climb 5.14 often do so with grace, fluidity, and other artistic stylings.

The gear is not the art, it is the movement, but it takes hard work to figure that out, not a credit card.

art noun \ˈärt\ : something that is created with imagination and skill and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or feelings

: works created by artists : paintings, sculptures, etc., that are created to be beautiful or to express important ideas or feelings

: the methods and skills used for painting, sculpting, drawing, etc.

After thinking about this for some time this is where I'm at right now. It is the intent of the person which determines if something is art or not. If David drops a deuce that looks like Lincoln by accident it's not art. If it was done intentionally than it is a highly skilled art.

In climbing I can't see much intention to express ideas or feelings most of the time. But there are times when people create climbs in a certain style as a way to express a feeling or message to others, intentionally. I'm thinking early Yosemite bigwalls or R/X rated climbs put up in response to over-bolted sport routes.

Art is a defined term which is hard to define. Art is not everything but it could be anything. One thing is for sure, art is inspired. Music is not art without inspiration. Without inspiration one cannot create art. Inspiration does not come from the mind.

The Stoned Master wrote:why RGing? whats going on?

I don't often agree with women but when I do, its this one.

MC Poopypants wrote:art noun \ˈärt\ : In climbing I can't see much intention to express ideas or feelings most of the time.

Bingo.

There are sports that integrate art: take gymnasitic floor routines. Music, costumes are nearly as important as power and skill. Surfing and skiing trick comps give points for style. There are multiple judges so grading a subjective experience like gymnastic expression is more accurate.

Climbing is more like track events: start at point A, go point B. Power and endurance, whoever gets there first wins. no style points therefore, not art. Purely objective assessment.

There are no style points in climbing the rock or even in comps. You could float the route beautifully and fall at the chains: fail. Other guy grunts, cuts his feet a lot, but powers through and clips the chains: win.

this is as close as I see climbing getting to art:
climbingnarc.com/2013/11/ho…

Beards are art!

i don't consider climbing an art. the things being climbed on the other hand are a different story. its these wild mountains, crags, walls, and towers that are the true artwork and collecting this art in my memories is the reason i climb. I climb for the adventure/exploration factor. I like going places few people will ever have the ability to go, seeing things most people will never get to see. that's why I prefer mountains and towers, things with an actual summit. when I'm sitting up top after a hard climb I often think of the majority of humanity sittin' in there homes watchin' TV or working in a cubicle and I feel sorry for them. I honestly don't understand why everyone doesn't have my same desire to be in these magnificent places and see these beautiful pieces of art.

I was surprised to read through three pages before encountering a definition of art. I appreciate the effort to define the word but I would have chosen this one straight from GOOGLE:

art / ärt/ noun: the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination

If climbing isn't a creative skill then I don't know what is. Climbing involves the direct application of such skill. Thus, all of our creative sidestepping is irrelevant because deductively (at least by MY definition) climbing is art.

In basic terms: The application of creative skill is art, Climbing is the application of creative skill, therefore climbing is art.

I have intentionally ignored the ambiguities of my post...

what about setting a perfect nut in a shitty placement? I think the process placing thought provoking gear placements is very creative. If pottery is allowed to be an art form, so can that.

Placing a nut for safety is a skill. One could say there is 'an art' to placing nuts, but this doesn't make it art.

Eye of the beholder, David, eye of the beholder.

Anyway, I am working on a performance piece tomorrow. It's called "My pretentious ass flailing on granite".

David Sahalie wrote:Placing a nut for safety is a skill. One could say there is 'an art' to placing nuts, but this doesn't make it art.

Just because placing gear is a safety skill does not keep it from being an art-form. It is simply functional art just like pottery or architecture.

Joshua,

You left out the rest of the definition you are using from google and over simplified the idea.

noun: art; the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.-Google

So using the entire definition that you chose would you say that all climbing is done to create beautiful or emotional work for others to appreciate? I would say sometimes yes and sometimes no. Hence, I am thinking it's more about the intent of the individual at the time.

To take your idea a step further could I say warfare is a creative skill directly applied to killing people so war is art?

Definitions are important in a practical sense because we need to understand what each other is talking about. On the other hand, as with art, we can see that definitions don't always explain everything or are not definitive.

I think when people say things like "climbing is art" they are trying to create an indentity for that object (climbing is an object in our minds) and applying some of that identity to themselves or others. Kind of like reffering to anything a climber does as dirtbagging. People want to identify with dirtbagging so they use the term to describe what they are doing. Does that make it so? No.

If a child climbs a tree is that art? Not according to your definition.

I didn't leave out the rest of MY definition.

Anyway, note the use of the word "typically" which typically denotes an intent to portray example but not necessarily extend the definition. Typically also suggests that there are plenty of Atypical options that could still work. Regardless, I intentionally left that part off because I knew it would create more ambiguity.

The last part of the definition you supplied could be included but it just leaves a lot to the interpretation as to the meaning of "appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power." More ambiguity.

Even including this last part, most climbers, and all trad climber (I hope) would argue that climbing is full of "emotional power" This emotion or even beauty doesn't need to be appreciated by anybody but the climber to satisfy the definition.

As horrible and devastating as war, there exist a certain beauty and a lot of emotional power associated with the brilliant strategies and tactics of good generals and leaders. I think that the practice of war could very possible be an art. A disgusting and tragic art but art nonetheless. This is completely off topic and I am likely to get a crap ton of responses but that's ok.