Anyone have experience with these bolt hangers???
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Morgan Patterson wrote: Of course they're crap and will rot out in like 2-3 yrs cause they were made in CHiNa... Thats not to mention that they aren't even supposed to be cross loaded and thats all we do to those puppies! Hey I got a few still in the trunk kicking around if you wanna slam some in randomly along some famous trad climb. And Brian when I placed a few (and removed a few) they only cost $1.50 (plus glue $13). 90% cheaper then stainless @ retail which is $14, $6.50 price was special sale on only a single bolt/hanger combo. In all honesty though, Spraug would probably be the best to talk to about those since they were kinda pioneered up at Rumney. I know they don't use them anymore if thats any consolation.wave bolts 1/2" at 6 bucks wavebolt.com/order/ I cant find prices on Jim Titts twisted ones but they are metric anyways so they wouldnt work too well in a 1/2" hole |
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MJMobes wrote: wave bolts 1/2" at 6 bucks wavebolt.com/order/ I cant find prices on Jim Titts twisted ones but they are metric anyways so they wouldnt work too well in a 1/2" holeim done with those glueins for a while... too much of a PITA. I wanna bolt and climb same day. |
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"Every time Locker places a bolt, a Chinese orphan develops diarrhea"...
It helps keep the market shares up on TP. I do what I can. |
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Morgan Patterson wrote: Jim this is really a shame... rather then chop these bolts they should have been removed if they were glue ins. If they weren't glue-ins then you are probably confused in thinking they were hot dipped galvanized carbon steel eyebolts.The bolts in the upper photo are in Croatia, courtesy of a well known manufacturer. The ones in the lower photo are glue-ed in FFME bolts at Mt St Victoire in southern France which are hot-dipped forged steel bolts made for the French Federation. They were strongly supported by Helmut Microys as the solution to corrosion failures in tropical sea cliffs and nearly made it into the UIAA standard but others saw sense! (Helmut Microys was the AAC rep to the UIAA by the way). |
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Jim Titt wrote: They were strongly supported by Helmut Microys as the solution to corrosion failures in tropical sea cliffs and nearly made it into the UIAA standard but others saw sense! (Helmut Microys was the AAC rep to the UIAA by the way).sounds like our own USDA and FDA! |
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Morgan Patterson wrote: im done with those glueins for a while... too much of a PITA. I wanna bolt and climb same day.Jim's 12mm bolts worked fine in a 1/2in hole. The only downside was there wasn't an interference fit so they didn't work on overhanging stuff. 12mm SDS bits are much easier to find in the states these days so it's a bit of a moot point. Jim's swamped with Euro orders for his bolts so I'm not sure US availability is good right now. ClimbTech has taken over the Wave Bolts in the USA and it's a nice product as well. If you use the right glue you can be climbing on your routes within the hour. I use Epcon A7 Glue and average time to cure is around 35minutes or so depending on temps. I wait an hour after gluing - a good time to clean up the gear and dust the route off again. Iv'e gotten to where I can bolt a vertical route with glue ins nearly as fast as I could with SS mech bolts. I take a bit more time per hole cleaning and then a bit more time being clean with my glue gun. Maybe 2 min per hole more max? No biggie for the quality improvement. |
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mattm wrote: Jim's 12mm bolts worked fine in a 1/2in hole. The only downside was there wasn't an interference fit so they didn't work on overhanging stuff. 12mm SDS bits are much easier to find in the states these days so it's a bit of a moot point. Jim's swamped with Euro orders for his bolts so I'm not sure US availability is good right now. ClimbTech has taken over the Wave Bolts in the USA and it's a nice product as well. If you use the right glue you can be climbing on your routes within the hour. I use Epcon A7 Glue and average time to cure is around 35minutes or so depending on temps. I wait an hour after gluing - a good time to clean up the gear and dust the route off again. Iv'e gotten to where I can bolt a vertical route with glue ins nearly as fast as I could with SS mech bolts. I take a bit more time per hole cleaning and then a bit more time being clean with my glue gun. Maybe 2 min per hole more max? No biggie for the quality improvement.We´ve changed the bolts for the USA so they are an interference fit in a 1/2" hole, we still deliver direct to the states, sent some a couple of weeks ago to some guy who´s no doubt struggling at -30° now! We glue to the top, rap down, clean up, change our shoes and climb the route. For most glues 15-20 mins is plenty of cure time. |
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Jim Titt wrote: We´ve changed the bolts for the USA so they are an interference fit in a 1/2" hole, we still deliver direct to the states, sent some a couple of weeks ago to some guy who´s no doubt struggling at -30° now! We glue to the top, rap down, clean up, change our shoes and climb the route. For most glues 15-20 mins is plenty of cure time.price compared to wave? can you beat 6 bucks? I still dont get your post about the paint- "The damage to the corrosion resistance you do with a bit of sanding is nothing compared to the damage painting does so carry on. " |
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Yeah, more on that please. |
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"is nothing compared to the damage painting does so carry on."
That one interests me as well. If there is good reason to NOT be painting them, then by all means PLEASE explain more... THANKS! |
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Good to know we can source your bolts in the US Jim and that the 1/2in fit change has been made. Good stuff. |
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I guess this explains why I never see a painted stainless steel boat. |
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MJMobes wrote: I still dont get your post about the paint- "The damage to the corrosion resistance you do with a bit of sanding is nothing compared to the damage painting does so carry on. "As others have mentioned, the painted (or powder coated) layer can induce crevice corrosion, and promote other forms of localized corrosion. Powder coating seems to be worse, but painting can be an issue as well. In fact, the majority of the stainless steel hangers that have failed in Hawaii were powder coated. The bare stainless steel hangers last longer. The best thing you can do is to do nothing. Dont paint the hanger, dont sand it, just use it. ;) |
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Back in 2010;- ".... Additionally, the Metolius powder coated stainless steel hangers (Enviro Hangers), shouldn't be used in marine or wet environments due to the same moisture trapping issues." Metolious Climbing. |
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"In order to get good adhesion of the coating it is nescessary to destroy the oxide coating with some kind of etch primer, thus removing the stainless steel´s protective barrier. Once the coating is damaged the crevice corrosion can begin. "
Is this an issue only when the process pointed out above takes place? What about when blasting on a little bit of PRIMER paint? Zero etching. ??? And THANKS Jim T for taking the time to explain all of this! These types of threads are my personal favorites. ;-) |
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what this probably stoned layman is getting is it has to do with moisture getting trapped. Its probably no big deal in a dry spot at all but paint/primer etc can make it corrode in a wet area like a sea cliff/waterfall zone. |
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Locker wrote:"In order to get good adhesion of the coating it is nescessary to destroy the oxide coating with some kind of etch primer, thus removing the stainless steel´s protective barrier. Once the coating is damaged the crevice corrosion can begin. " Is this an issue only when the process pointed out above takes place? What about when blasting on a little bit of PRIMER paint? Zero etching. ??? And THANKS Jim T for taking the time to explain all of this! These types of threads are my personal favorites. ;-)I´m not a painter! There again I´ve painted plenty of the stuff. Things like Rustoleum are etch primers with zinc phosphate or red lead as the protective pigment so who knows what the real effect is. And when you look at what´s in a typical primer then God only knows what it all does anyway. Coloured hangers are unknown in Europe so we´ve never bothered to find a good solution apart from looking into plasma coating which has the advantage there isn´t anywhere for moisture to accumulate since it becomes part of the metal itself. Even this isn´t a wonder cure since the coaters only say it increases the corrosion resistance to that of stainless steel which didn´t help a lot. Can´t you just use a waterproof marker of a suitable colour or not bother like us? We climbed a route a few years ago on a granite dome in Arizona, the bolts were virtually impossible to find and the only things that would see them 6 pitches up were a couple of scrawny cows who didn´t appear to have much in the way of aesthetic sensibilities. |
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Jim Titt wrote:We climbed a route a few years ago on a granite dome in Arizona, the bolts were virtually impossible to find and the only things that would see them 6 pitches up were a couple of scrawny cows who didn´t appear to have much in the way of aesthetic sensibilities.300 series especially seems to naturally "haze" over time. On, I'd guess, most rock surfaces they're low profile enough. It's the shiny plated stuff that's visible from space... Jim, opinion on 400 series? Same issue with painting? The polished hangers really shine with a near mirror finish. I remember that Metolius came out with that info on their powder coated hangers, but, didn't see it on their website. Hmmm. Great info, Jim...thanks! |
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Brian in SLC wrote: 300 series especially seems to naturally "haze" over time. On, I'd guess, most rock surfaces they're low profile enough. It's the shiny plated stuff that's visible from space... Jim, opinion on 400 series? Same issue with painting? The polished hangers really shine with a near mirror finish. I remember that Metolius came out with that info on their powder coated hangers, but, didn't see it on their website. Hmmm. Great info, Jim...thanks!With limited exceptions, painting any type of stainless steel can induce corrosion. If you really want painted hangers in a wet environment you will have to look into higher grades: 904L, 317, 2205, 6%Mo 2205, titanium, ect. I am not too familiar with 400-series SS, although I suspect superferritic 400-series like SEACURE would work, although it might be too brittle. Superferritic is going to be really expensive. Even 904L, titanium and 6% Mo SS is quite expensive. It is probably not worth it to increase your bolting cost by 3 - 5x just so you can paint the hanger. A less optimal alternative is to use 316SS. The Petzl hanger is made from 316 stock: |
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Is the damage caused by the painting isolated or does it somehow manage to work it's way in? |