Slopers and hangboarding

I'm wondering if incorporating slopers into a hangboard routine is worthwhile. A couple of points to consider; first is that I frequently climb at rifle and encounter a lot of slopers. Secondly, is that I do large slopers as my last set as sort of a cool down. However, I know some of the conventional wisdom would say to stick to edges for hangboarding and use large edges with weight added and small edges with weight removed. But there has to be some benefit to hangboarding since they do put slopers on hangboards right?

I guess really what it boils down to is is it efficient to use them? Even at the end of the set the slopers feel relatively easy, although that could just be a result of the lack of finger strain. I know I could always add weight, but if anyone has any insight on this topic, it would be most appreciated.

I should add pinches to this question as well.

TheBirdman wrote: Even at the end of the set the slopers feel relatively easy, although that could just be a result of the lack of finger strain. I know I could always add weight, but if anyone has any insight on this topic, it would be most appreciated.

Maybe you are using the wrong hangboard with few sloper options. Have you tried the flat 45 degree slopers on the Beastmaker hangboard?

There was a time i mounted my hangboare upside down to have a change of pace for holds. I had a metolius board at the time. This made for sloping crimps. Was interesting for a while.

I assume you're hanging on your slopers. Try doing pull-ups on them to add some difficulty.

As for the pinches (I have the Contact - metoliusclimbing.com/traini…), I thought they were just as easy as the slopers. However, when I combined the crimp and pinch I found it added a great deal of difficulty. It's funny how crimping both hands are okay, the pinching both hands are okay, but mixing the two makes it hard.

Having said that, I just started training and have yet to see any results on real rock. I have to wait for Spring...

I use slopers for warm-up and cool-down. But I don't specifically train on them on the hang board. In my mind, climbing slopers is more of a technique thing and doing weighted hangs on them doesn't seem to offer much value. I could be wrong on that thought, but that has been my experience.

I put slopers and pinches between my flat edge sets. I feel they are a recovery from pulling on small edges and slimpers.

Will Anglin wrote:If you want to get better at it you should train it.

^^^This.
I'd go further & say if you only do them as part of warm up/cool down/recovery then you aren't really training. One of the nice thing is sloppers & pinches are generally tendon friendly (watch for the wrist position), so you may be able to train them more frequently.

reboot wrote: ^^^This. I'd go further & say if you only do them as part of warm up/cool down/recovery then you aren't really training. One of the nice thing is sloppers & pinches are generally tendon friendly (watch for the wrist position), so you may be able to train them more frequently.

I wouldn't quite say they are warm-up cool down. It's more of a way to ease into a hangboard set and come out of it. I do pinches first and slopers last with edges in between. I feel this avoids anything too fingery right away and anything too fingery at the end, but they are definitely still in the set. I don't like the pull-up idea as I feel that changes the workout. Maybe more aggressive slopers or additional weight.

I agree with the idea that if I climb a lot of slopers and pinches, I should train slopers and pinches. My main question is just if anyone speak to the effectiveness of it. I've always read that training edges translates to grip strength on any hold, whether it be sidepulls, gastons, slopers, pinches, whatever. My thinking was training on slopers increases the specificity but I'm wondering if there is a drop off in terms of effectiveness regarding overall grip strength.

TheBirdman wrote: My main question is just if anyone speak to the effectiveness of it. I've always read that training edges translates to grip strength on any hold, whether it be sidepulls, gastons, slopers, pinches, whatever.

Training sloppers & pinches improves your slopper & pinch strength. It doesn't translate to crimps that well. I don't know where you read it, but crimps don't translate to sloppers & pinches very well either. Hell, even open handed crimps and half crimps are pretty different (try going from high friction but smaller holds (your average plastic hangboard) to low friction but larger holds (wooden hangboard)), as I've been finding out. But sloppers & pinches are pretty tendon friendly and you can make gains faster than crimp strength with lower risk of injury, so why not get them strong?

i agree with reboot, if you want to get stronger on slopers and pinches, adding them to your workout is a good idea. in my experience, i generally run into a brick wall on both of these and don't get stronger from season to season.

for the pinch, i am guessing it might have something to do with my hand geometry. i still keep this grip in my workout though.

for the sloper, i think you run into an adhesion limited situation where there is only so much friction between your skin and the hangboard. i haven't really kept the sloper in my routine, somewhat for this reason, as well as not really climbing many routes on slopers.

I know several climbers that swear by the Iron Mind "Captain's of Crush" grippers. These devices might not do much for crimp strength either, but they might add to overall contact strength while being also tendon-friendly. Todd Skinner once wrote about his use of a heavily weighted barbell rolled from tips to closed hand and back as a way to generate open hand strength rapidly.

reboot wrote: Hell, even open handed crimps and half crimps are pretty different (try going from high friction but smaller holds (your average plastic hangboard) to low friction but larger holds (wooden hangboard)), as I've been finding out.

I always thought the contrary to this. Open-handed crimps trains crimp strength in general. Half and closed crimps only train those specific grip types. In other words, Open-handed crimps train all three, open, half, and closed whereas half crimps only train half crimps and closed crimps only train closed crimps, with a higher risk of injury I might add.

I'm inclined to agree with everyone in regards to the training on pinches and slopers. But see here, this is straight off metolius.com:

"How to Grasp the Grips: You want to use an open-handed grip as often as possible. Most climbers are weaker open-handed than crimped, so you may find this difficult at first, but you'll get used to it. Training open-handed will increase your crimp strength (but not vice-versa), and it is essential for holding pockets, slopers, and certain edges, as well as making moves at maximum stretch and catching dynos. Most importantly, however, using an open hand lowers the potential for injury. As you adapt to training, you can incorporate a little crimp training to increase your maximum edge-holding power, but keep it to a minimum."

I've also read the contractions you do on a flat edge translate to all hold types equally, whereas slopers are limited to just slopers and pinches just to pinches. So would I still be training slopers and pinches and gaining more by working more edges. I like the specificity but I'm also trying to be as efficient as possible.

reboot wrote: Hell, even open handed crimps and half crimps are pretty different (try going from high friction but smaller holds (your average plastic hangboard) to low friction but larger holds (wooden hangboard)), as I've been finding out.

Tangential question:

Which of these do you think is preferable to train on (slippery wood vs. grippy plastic)? With the fancy new gym in Golden, I now have access to a bunch of different hangboards, and they are all clean and new and non-greasy too. I'm about to start up the January hangboard cycle, and am somewhat undecided about what set of holds on which board(s) to use. The RPTC board and the Beastmaker 2000 are the two most appealing options... but I haven't fully decided which one I prefer (I haven't used either board in the past). A big part of it comes down to plastic vs. wood. What do you think? Using a combination of holds from the two boards is also an option, since they are right next to each other, but I'm trying to decide which to use for basic open-hand and half-crimp hangs from edges.

TheBirdman wrote: But see here, this is straight off metolius.com

Like I said, my experience contradicts with what's on the metolius website: open handed crimp is quite different from half crimp, especially on steeper angle wall or longer moves between holds (where it's basically not possible to maintain a >90 degree finger joint angle). Yes, open handed strength is nice to have for latching on to a far hold, but you must be able to generate the power and control to get there, this is where half crimp strength on the lower hand becomes crucial.

I'm not saying you should train a lot of half crimp, but it will be your (in this case, my) weakness if you only train open handed.

JCM wrote: Tangential question: Which of these do you think is preferable to train on (slippery wood vs. grippy plastic)?

I'd prefer training half crimp on wood because it forces you to contract your fingers at the tips much harder than on plastic (where it's easy to use your skin to take some weight). This will be even more evident if you do one-arm hangs (where you can't cheat as easily by sticking your legs out & changing the effective angle a bit). That said, I haven't trained on wood that much; I only realized recently it's my weakness :) But if I remember correctly, the Anderson bros' new board isn't particularly grippy either.

I think what's being missed here is that the amount you should train each grip depends greatly on your level of experience with hangboarding. The Metolius site is correct in that to start you should train mostly (only?) open-handed grips as a person new to hangboard training may not have the tendon strength built up to support a lot of hard crimping.

As you rack up seasons of training/climbing and the tendons to go along with it I think that the specificity of training crimps separate from open-hand grips (including slopers) is important. Will you get stronger at crimping by only training slopers and open-hand grips? Maybe. Will you get stronger at crimping by training that specific type of crimp? Definitely (if you train correctly). To relate this point to my training, this winter I'm training half crimp and full crimp (gasp!) separately, as each of these stress muscles and tendons differently. I complete my hangboard workout with sets of Middle/Ring and Index/Middle pockets and then, yes, a sloper set a the end.

The beastmaker 2000 has a few sloper options. I'm still working the 35 degree slopers. The 45 degree slopers may as well be a window pane for how well I can hold those. If these still feel too easy, add weights or do pullups.

reboot wrote: But if I remember correctly, the Anderson bros' new board isn't particularly grippy either.

This is certainly true, and that is why it is the one plastic board in consideration. Most plastic boards are just kind of heinous on the skin, it seems.

quick question - when you guys say open handed crimp, does that mean full crimp but without the thumb wrap? i assume half crimp is basically half way between dead open and full crimp?

in my experience, i haven't seen much translation from grip to grip in terms of open, half, closed, etc. i have to train each of them separately to see results.

one interesting example. i used to be stronger with a 3 finger open grip than a 4 finger half crimp, simply because i trained the former and not the latter. last year i realized that the 4 finger half crimp is easier to use campusing, so i added that grip and deleted the 3 finger open grip for my HB workouts. now, i am stronger on the 4 finger half crimp.

i am still stronger on both of these grips than i am for a full crimp, but the full crimp feels more secure when you move upwards.

i haven't ever really seen translation between my sloper strength and any of the finger positions, or vice versa. some people say that you can gain crimp strength by training open, but not vice versa. i don't agree, i think you need to train both.

JCM wrote: Tangential question: Which of these do you think is preferable to train on (slippery wood vs. grippy plastic)? With the fancy new gym in Golden, I now have access to a bunch of different hangboards, and they are all clean and new and non-greasy too. I'm about to start up the January hangboard cycle, and am somewhat undecided about what set of holds on which board(s) to use. The RPTC board and the Beastmaker 2000 are the two most appealing options... but I haven't fully decided which one I prefer (I haven't used either board in the past). A big part of it comes down to plastic vs. wood. What do you think? Using a combination of holds from the two boards is also an option, since they are right next to each other, but I'm trying to decide which to use for basic open-hand and half-crimp hangs from edges.

i prefer grippy as my fingers are pretty greasy. i think a slippery board is kind of sketchy, because when you pop off it can be kind of violent, particularly on the shoulders. i have only ever really used a (homemade) wooden hold for a crimp for this reason; i find the wood to be too slippery after it has had a few sessions.