Ice Climbing Advice for a Small Female Needed

Hello,

I recently started ice climbing after 3 years of rock climbing. I have a set of BD carbon fiber Cobras which is very light compared to all the other axes on the market.
The thing is, I am very small. I'm 5'2" and 98lbs. I don't think I will ever be bigger than I am now considering my age.
Anyway, I'm having a hard time connecting axes to ice. I understand ice climbing is more of a power sport compared to rock climbing. But there should be techniques or some sort of training methods so that small female can climb as powerful as all the others.
I run 8 miles every morning and lift rgularly, so I would say I am stronger than regular female. But I feel like I can't grab axes quite well because of my hand size. Or maybe I need to lift heavier consentrating on my shoulders and lats like my boyfriend says.
So if there is anyone out there my size or anyone who knows techniques and ways of training, I'd really appreciate your advice and inputs!

Thanks :)

Huh I'm not great on ice at all but honestly I feel like I get my best placements and power from the flicking of my wrist and not from my muscles when I'm swinging my tools. Sort of a loose, snapping a drumstick sort of a motion. There may be some different tools out there with different handle profiles that will work better for you. (I feel like grivel makes some with smaller easier to grip handles, anyone else?) but honestly I think that just really focusing on the technique of your swing will generate a lot of positive progress for you. It's like you're barely holding the tool, just kind of letting it snap while very loosely holding it with your thumb and first couple fingers, the pinky and ring barely engaged at all. At least that's how I do it. I bet Will Gadd has something somewhere on his blog that could help you too, hope this all helps!

Troll

Hi, Ali.

I'm not a fan of new CF Cobras - something about the weight distribution that doesn't play well to my weak swing. I know a lot of guys like them, but I haven't met many women who are absolutely in love with them. Have you tried them with pick weights?

Regarding tool grips, I have smallish hands and like climbing with thin gloves, so most tool grips out there way big for me. That is why I like Petzl Nomics - on the second generation ones you can adjust the grip to 3 sizes, so I set mine on the smallest. I know a lot of people complain about aggressive teeth on Nomics and that they are hard to get first sticks, but to me they are the perfect mix of geometry and weight distribution. I just have to adjust my swing a bit and strength is something that you acquire as the season progresses.

From other tools out there I've tried Cassin X-all mountains and X-dreams. I really liked how the sicks drive into ice, but found All Mountains a bit on a heavy side and X-dream grips way big for my hands.

My advice is a) have somebody show you how to correctly swing tools (all tools need slight swing adjustments that are very subtle), b) try pick weights or c) try different tools.

Men will tell you differently and say that modern tools are pretty much the same, but men can swing a maul axe to chop wood all day no problem - I can't.

youtube.com/watch?v=ChNVI4e…

Kirby1013 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChNVI4eZ_k4&list=UUK_d-RVpGjtvIYsCuXLAguA

Ah, beat me to the video. Any way its technique you are lacking. Yesterday I was watching a father and daughter on some WI4, the young girl was 10 or so years old by my best guess, and maybe 5.0' tall and 80ish lbs. She was burying each swing at lest 2-3 inches every time.
Every swing was belay ready that I could see. if she can you can too Watch Will Gadd's video and practice practice and more.

+1 for learning some technique tips-- it's more finesse than power, even for ice climbing. At 98 lbs., you'll actually have some great advantages.

Some ideas:
1. The correct swing is a lot like a good hammer blow, so if you haven't done much construction or home repair work involving a hammer and nails, borrow a good hammer and practice on a 2x4 or a stump in the back yard for a while. Seriously-- the most effective hammer blows (that drive the nail furthest with each blow) require a little looseness in the wrist and a definitive flick. it also requires the power to come from a controlled but substantial hinge-and-swing at the elbow (the power is coming from your triceps, on the back of your upper arm, and not from your forearms). Same things for ice.
2. When my hands and forearms start to fatigue climbing ice (which is quickly, cause I don't climb enough anymore), putting my thumb on the back of the handle to "guide" the pick and give a little extra oomph to the flick help. Added bonus: it keeps me from overgripping the handle (see below).
3. learn just how little grip it takes to hold the ice axe in your hand. try this: standing on the ground, place your tools in the ice and hang your body weight down on them by squatting. Now gradually loosen your grip until your hands begin to slip off. The correct degree of grip on your tools while climbing is just a little tighter than that moment-- just enough to not drop them, but no more than necessary.
4. Leashes-- Shhh, don't tell anyone, but I use them, and I don't care how uncool that makes me. For pure ice, I like them even though my current tools (BD Vipers) have big thumb and finger triggers for leashless climbing. I think they are nice when you are starting out, since they keep you from dropping your tools and give you extra ways to rest. With leashes on, I can hang from my tools and still open each of my fingers one at a time for a little stretch and de-pump. Are they a pain to lead with? Yep, but not nearly as much as pumping out and having your hands slip off the tools while on the sharp end...
5. Learn to "hear" and feel a solid pick-stick in the ice, so you place each tool as few times as necessary. When you're starting out, its really hard to trust that you got a solid pick placement on the first swing, but as you climb more, you'll start to know the feeling (immediate vibration dampening) and hear the sound ("thunk!") of a safe pick placement in good ice, and you'll be able to expend less energy hammering away at the same spot in the ice to try to get the pick in 5% deeper...

Have fun (toprope and follow a lot for a few more years) and stay safe!

If you have first gen. Cobras, those tools have large diameter grips that can be a strain to hold onto if you have small hands. Also, all BD tools seem to require a fairly long swing to work well. They are head-heavy and will penetrate the ice quite well once you've built up the head speed, but they are NOT a wrist flick style of tool. Grivel Quantum Techs, CAMP Awaxes, and Cassin X All Mountain, now those are wrist flick type tools IME. The good news? It's easier to develop a "big swing" (look at photos where the climber has the tool way out behind the shoulders) than a powerful wrist flick. I find most folks plant the axes better when they get angry too. Not to suggest you pick a fight with your signif. other before you hit the ice crag, only to try to decide what you do differently when you're PO'ed and get a good stick. Then try to do that all the time.

Also make sure you've got your feet well planted in the ice, preferably a bit wider than shoulder width. That way you can take your time and get the tools well planted. Biggest mistake I see new climbers make is either feet too close together (leading to a barn door effect when they remove one tool to advance it) or blowing one foot loose while they're swinging and they keep swinging anyway. Poorly and hurriedly of course since they're now off balance. And they end up with a poor stick, try to move on it, and it blows out.

Pull ups. Lots of pull ups.

Try Petzl Quarks -- even lighter than Cobras, and for me they worked better, as well.

XMonsters, the original versions from about 2007 were pretty light tools. And they made those 'kids' versions that were basically just for hooking into ice holes. Try lots of other tools if you can borrow them when out climbing with others.
Best workout for training,,really? A hammer and a box of 16 penny nails. Pound nails into wood. Work on swing and power stroke, just bang nails into some 2by4's and see how it helps your aim, concentration and maybe strength too. Get the feel for impact of tool against an object. Cheap workout too, a 5 dollar hammer, same for a 2 pound box of nails, and any kind of wood laying around. It really works.

You'll find that tool preference is very personal. My wife has BD Vipers and swears by them; I don't think she will ever use any other tool (but she's not built like you). I, on the other hand, have never liked swinging any BD tool ever. What others have said is spot on: swing as many tools as you can. Go to the ice festivals and use the demo tools for free.

Grivel tools have MUCH thinner grips than BD. I have Quantum Techs, and the grip is so thin I thought they were made for women, and I was going to return them or tape them five times. I got used to them, though, and now find the thin grip far less tiring than other tools. Something to look into. It is true as was said that QTs actually work better with a lighter swing, Cobras are the opposite.

Overhead dumbbell swings and one-handed pull-downs (first outward), are good exercises for swing-related muscles, since you like to lift. I also put plumbing tubing over my picks and do pull-ups with the tools on the backs of stairs and ladders. You can also hook the tools on a pull up bar. I like open stairs/ladders better because you can actually climb up. Either way, it works different muscles than pull ups with your hands on the bar.

What has been said about gripping lightly is very good advice. Also, learn to hook. Good luck.

You might want to try a tool with a smaller diameter grip... Grivel Matrix, or Quantum, have smaller grips than most... Best training you can do for swinging axes is to pound nails in a board. If you can swing a hammer well, you can use an ice axe. Don't forget, you gotta use both hands, and keep your arms extended, not close in to your body... Good luck dude.

My eldest daughter started ice at probably 80lbs. Smaller shaft ice tools and non-bulky gloves help. Petzl Quarks are decent for smaller, lighter ice climbers. Though, even big folks will be challenged to stick tools well early on. There is a good, old video of Jeff Lowe teaching Bird Lew to climb ice after being an accomplished 5.12 rock climber that may be instructional. Learning how to relax and snap the wrists at the end of swing rather than pushing the tools into ice is an early ice climbing milestone. Good luck!

Chicks w/ Picks will set you right, Aki.

It's more about feet and hips than it is about power.

Nomics they stick so much easier and better.

Rumor is BD has thrown in the towel and is coming out with a Nomic knock off.

Thank you so much everyone for great advice. I really appreciated all your insights and advice on techniques. I'm definitely going to practice snapping skills using a hammer and work on my wrists/hands. Like some of you mentioned, I need more experiences on ice and just keep practicing until I feel confortable with my axe placement. Another thing, I think I need to bring a hot coco or tea in thermos to keep me warm. Keeping my hands warm is a key for me since my hands literally goes numb out in the cold which makes it hard for me to feel the grip.
I will check out the axes some of you brought up and see how I like it.
Thanks everyone again. Stay safe and have fun on the ice!
Merry Christmas :)

We introduced a girl to ice climbing last weekend. Had matrix's, vipers, and cobras with us. She liked and climbed the best with the vipers. The cobra's grips are the slimmest of the three. The vipers worked the best for the gal because it didn't require as much speed or flick in the swing because of the weight. Highly recommend getting some slim ice specific gloves. These will stick better to your tools and help you drive your picks straight. Don't make the common mistake of buying dry tooling gloves... Some are slicker than snot when wet! Swing from the elbow not shoulder... This is a common beginner mistake.

Buff Johnson wrote:Chicks w/ Picks will set you right, Aki. It's more about feet and hips than it is about power.

+1 on CWP outings. Go for it if possible. Also the tips on thinner gloves works well. I doubt if you are leading 150 ft. cold ice routes right now, so thin works well to toprope at first, then swap back to handwarmers and thick gloves between your climbs. Any thin handle tool will probably work well, and not one with too agressive a pic arc or design. Having a selection to use is nice, so find lots of climber friends with different sized tools and see what fits best.

Aki K wrote:Keeping my hands warm is a key for me since my hands literally goes numb out in the cold which makes it hard for me to feel the grip.

For sure, keeping your hands warm is key!!!

I always bring three pairs of gloves. One for hiking, belaying. One pair for lead climbing. One spare, super warm pair.

When you're climbing, whenever you can, rest with one or both hands lower than your heart; better circulation helps stave off freezing fingers.

No matter what you do, the screeming barfies lurk!!! Ya just gotta wait it out; endure the pain till the barfies go away.

Stephanie Mareau is a fairly diminutive woman and probably one of the best ice/mixed climbers stylistically I have ever seen. She uses a set of older prototype Cassin tools with which she absolutely crushes everything from the Directe Super Couloir to Inglorious Bastards. Granted she's a guide, but she utterly applies herself so I am guessing your stature has little to do with your plight. Proficiency on ice takes a while, there is no magic solution to gaining this proficiency other than being prepared to suffer and being patient as the consequences of even a minor fall in the winter mountains can be dire. Always be prepared to take another lap you will stay warmer that way as opposed to just freezing your arse off. Lastly I would suggest climbing around people who are brilliant at ice and mixed as opposed to top-roping with a bunch of duffers. I have never been a big fan of TRing on ice or mixed, it seems to breed a dependency on being able to walk around and drop a rope which if you want to actually climb anything like an alpine face is a useless endeavor...

Steph Mareau on Inglorious Bastards