Petzl Nomics vs Grivel Force/Master Alloy
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What your foot work suck or something Kirby? I would have thought a big boy like you would have to use their feet. On steep ice good technique gets really important if you want to have any arms left. |
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Forgot... |
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Come on Dane, you know me by now. I'm just talking shit and trying to be funny. What the hell do I know? |
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Kirby the point I was trying to make is don't let the tools get in the way of enjoying the climbing. I have tools that I really like and tools I don't like all that much. I own most of what has been listed here. But I only climb on one or two of them if it is serious for me. They happen to fit my lazy techniques. But I am not fool enough to believe that one is any better than the other on water ice the majority of the time. |
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Dane, thank you for writing down all this information down. I really was just trying to be funny. You made alot of good points and I will remember them next time I disagree with someone, and not just about ice tools. I was very narrow minded after I had a pair of X Dreams in my hands at the end of last season. I've toned it down a little since then. Now I just say take a lap with one kind of tool in one hand and other kind in the other. See which one you like better. I feel if you're in the market for new ice tools you should try as many tools as you can get your hands on. There's an ice tool out there for everyone. I started writing on this thread to find another tool besides the X Dream. |
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Are you two going to start admiring each other's mustaches next? |
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No explanation or apology required. It was just a jacket. Easy enough to have a misunderstanding or a typo via email. |
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Just a jacket? You sell all kinds of gear. I believe I heard never again so not only did I lose out on a Dually for 250 bones I missed out on some gloves and pants too. I look at it as a learning experience.. I learned not to piss off someone who can help! Haha Ray Pinpillage wrote:Are you two going to start admiring each other's mustaches next?Why thank you for noticing! See it's good to admire. |
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Kirby1013 wrote: Interesting you don't like that way of testing tools. I've been shown that by two different professional ice climbers.Professional ice climbers? Interesting definition :-) I use to be one...or at least got paid for ice climbing anyway. So less impressed with opinion I guess if it is not a shared (read my) opinion :) Think about it. How do you use the tool? Do you want to find out what tool is "easier" to swing as a beginner? Or which one is a better tool once you adapt your (in a general sense not Kirby specifically) technigue and skills to? I can look at an ice climber on a TR and likely hand you the tool that will be the easiest for you to use that day. Your swing and foot work will tell me much. But it might not be much of a tool your second year. There is a reason BD makes tools with different size grips, balance and different pick angles...generally jumping 2 degrees between tool models or pick use. You used a Ergo on easy ice and liked it. As do I and one of the best Euopean professional ice climbers..Jeff Mercier. At least Mercier seems to use the Ergo "every where" including easy ice/alpine to M what ever. Not like he doesn;t have a choice in tools being sponsored by Petzl. My point is if you like the X Dream and liked the Ergo ( would seem obvious which is better on moderate ice) you know how to modify your own techniques to use a tool to best effect. One in each hand? What would you learn short term verses long term? Still think that is still a good test after thinking about it? I do agree...the more tools you climb on the better informed you'll be to make a good choice on your own. Or just buy what your "pro" is using :-) Then learn how to climb like them !!! "Never again"? I don;t generally stay pissed forever. A Pal Pal account will solve that Kirby. |
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Both are killer tools, I think the Nomic edges out the Grivel as being a more all around tool but the Grivel stands out as being a radical steep climbing machine extraordinare. |
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Dane wrote: Professional ice climbers? Interesting definition :-) I use to be one...or at least got paid for ice climbing anyway. So less impressed with opinion I guess if it is not a shared (read my) opinion :) Think about it. How do you use the tool? Do you want to find out what tool is "easier" to swing as a beginner? Or which one is a better tool once you adapt your (in a general sense not Kirby specifically) technigue and skills to? I can look at an ice climber on a TR and likely hand you the tool that will be the easiest for you to use that day. Your swing and foot work will tell me much. But it might not be much of a tool your second year. There is a reason BD makes tools with different size grips, balance and different pick angles...generally jumping 2 degrees between tool models or pick use. You used a Ergo on easy ice and liked it. As do I and one of the best Euopean professional ice climbers..Jeff Mercier. At least Mercier seems to use the Ergo "every where" including easy ice/alpine to M what ever. Not like he doesn;t have a choice in tools being sponsored by Petzl. My point is if you like the X Dream and liked the Ergo ( would seem obvious which is better on moderate ice) you know how to modify your own techniques to use a tool to best effect. One in each hand? What would you learn short term verses long term? Still think that is still a good test after thinking about it? I do agree...the more tools you climb on the better informed you'll be to make a good choice on your own. Or just buy what your "pro" is using :-) Then learn how to climb like them !!! "Never again"? I don;t generally stay pissed forever. A Pal Pal account will solve that Kirby.So much for admiring each other... You don't like the phrase pro climbers? I guess I could have wrote guides who are have sponsors. It was easier to write two words instead of four. I didn't write the words "Pro climbers" to impress you as I wouldn't venture a guess as to what would impress you. I wrote that because I'm surprised you wouldn't agree with two guys who's job it is to teach ice climbing. Not looking for to evaluatemy opinion. I just find it interesting that your is differs from theirs. I'm not sure what you're getting at as I used Nomics, Fusions and Cobras the first week of ice climbing. I thought the were all good except for the orange Fusions. The Fusions were fun on a mixed TR but ice they were horrible. I continued to enjoy the Nomics and Cobras until I found the X Dreams. So no I didn't dislike one tool the first day then use three years later. I used the same tool since day one. I tried others and enjoyed too but stuck with Nomics. Those pro climbers seconded the decision saying that either the Nomic or the Cobra was a good match. That's interesting as I've never had a guide say one certain tool is for me. Rather I need to find the one ice tool that works for me or try these and tell me what you think. Then I made the decision for myself. I used the Ergos at Trollville while attending last year's MWV Ice Fest. I think there's moderate ice there. I wasn't on it. Again I'm surprised.. You using the word moderate. Ever since I climbed a 3 that was chandeliered from top to bottom I let conditions dictate grade. I go to these events so I can get as many tools in my hand as possible. I used almost every tool on the market that weekend even the Quark. It was a good tool to climb steep ice with. I didn't write that I used it because I knew I would. The Ergos on the other hand looked like overkill. I tried anyway as I wanted to try every tool and make my decision afterwards. By taking two diferent tools up a pitch I can see what hand is being used more than the another. Which arm gets worn out due to the tool being harder to pull outta the ice and what tool takes more swings to get into the ice. I do think it's a great idea. If I didn't I would try it out and see what happens. This reminds of all the people who said X Dreams suck on ice or Quarks suck on rock. I reply "have you tried them" They say No never picked up the Quarks or I just know the X Dreams are no good on ice. I believe your exact words were "we will never do business again" You know there's books and computer games for seniors to exercise their memory. hehehe |
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I had a chance to try the master alloy and the nomic out back to back at the Ouray ice fest. The guide for my Intro to mix class let me try his force. He used it the previous day to climb bridal veil, so it must climb steep ice well. As a total newb, take my opinion lightly.. but i thought the force was great for mixed and the nomic worked better on ice for me... but my swing sucks and i like the weight of the nomic.. |
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Dane wrote:this.....when they become available. Nomic climbs ice extemely well and mixed very well. ...X-Dream and Mtn are good. More like the Petzl tools....I am curious about the Tech Machine and X-Dream. Anybody have experience climbing on those? I am curious about a change of tools and learning about the pro's and cons of each tool. As a frame of reference, I currently have a pair of 2nd Gen Nomics and have climbed the Nomic line for 5+ years. I have access to a pair of Ergo's if I am going to be on mixed. I also have a pair Grivel X-Monsters and will use them periodically just to mix things up. I have heard some people talk about the x-dream and say that pick needs some modifying (filing) to get it to remove. Apparently somebody having pick-stick issues. Apart from that I haven't heard too much. |
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chadnuesmeyer wrote:I have heard some people talk about the x-dream and say that pick needs some modifying (filing) to get it to remove. Apparently somebody having pick-stick issues. Apart from that I haven't heard too much.I didn't have to touch my picks on my X-Dreams. My friends X-All Mountains will bury themselves like excalibur from time to time, but generally they're good too. If you ever want to try them out, I'm in SLC. |
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I pulled the trigger on the tech machines, couldn't pass up the 25% off sale. Hopefully they'll be here at the end of this week because this cold snap is forming up ice! I've climbed both generation nomics and quarks. I'll post more after some mileage... |