Adding/moving bolts at Stone Mountain NC

Adding or moving bolts at Stone is in my opinion not acceptable. Most of the old bolts were replaced some years ago and I well remember the commotion that caused. Strawberry Preserves and OBS have been done with out bolts or tree branches. (I climbed both routes in the early 80s sans tree branches, or sticky rubber.)

Stone Mtn. was and is a bastion of pure friction climbing. A resource unlike any other. Not supposed to be 'safe' or convenient. As my good friend Todd Wells said up thread it's much about mind control. Not sport climbing, but 'sporting' climbing!

GET SOME!

Meme Guy wrote: You're god damn right you didn't!

Didn't have anything to do with you meme guy...

Serious, non-troll question that someone already asked and I'm asking again: How come bolted rap stations are ok, if the climbing isn't supposed to be safe or convenient?

But my edition of "Sport Climbs of the East" lists Stone Mountain as a sport climbing area.......?

Matthew Blevin wrote: Didn't have anything to do with you meme guy... Serious, non-troll question that someone already asked and I'm asking again: How come bolted rap stations are ok, if the climbing isn't supposed to be safe or convenient?

I didn't approve that shit. Can't give you an answer, might as well chop em.

AD_Ange wrote:But my edition of "Sport Climbs of the East" lists Stone Mountain as a sport climbing area.......?

If by sport you mean 50 feet between each bolt then yes.

Meme Guy wrote: I didn't approve that shit. Can't give you an answer, might as well chop em.

fair enough. anyone else?

Matthew Blevin wrote: fair enough. anyone else?

I should disclaim I'm only half kidding. If those anchors were put up by hand from FA then I think they are legit. Not sure when they were replaced though, wasn't it early 2000s? CCC thinks they're the gods when it comes to NC ethics.

No way anyone would waste time hand drilling anchors along the tree ledge...

Those 3 stations on the tree ledge, as well as a few on the top, were added when the CCC did the last major rebolting at Stone.

A. Ange, I always got a kick out of that East Coast sport climbing book listing Stone Mtn routes in it!

The initial rebolting was in 1997. I think the park management was also partly responsible for the addition of the rap stations. Probably didn't like bark scoring and the mess of tat around the trees.

When Rotert, McMillan, McEver, Stevens, Fish, myself and all were establishing routes on the Mt of Stone in the 70's,all were necessarily bottom up and hand drilled. It was pretty heady having the tip of the drill being the one thing keeping you from the big ride.....Oftentimes, we drilled 1/4 inch holes and pounded 5/16 inch threaded bolts into them, or used 1/4 bolts with various hanger options, and if we didn't have hangers, then we slipped a wired stopper over the bolt head, and called it a victory. Back then we didn't have a clue what "sport" climbing was, since it wasn't invented till the Smith Rock folks came back from France in the '80's.......It is encouraging to see the debate continue. That said, none of us mind having solid rap anchors established, and indeed the trees and such appreciate it. When Bob R and I did the first complete ascent of Electric Boobs, he clipped into the first anchor, which was one of the "old" 1/4 inch 5/16 hole versions. He leaned out on the anchor, and it ripped out. He would have cratered, had he not regained his balance. It was pretty amazing watching him down climb that pitch.....When McEver and I did the first girdle traverse in '77, we called it the Garbage Detail, since we took the time to clean up and rebolt a number of older and sketchy bolts along the way. In no way did we change nor add anything. If we did, it would have been a communal action of the FAers. Admittedly, clipping into a nice fat 1/2 inch bolt does reduce the stress factor, and why wouldn't we want to make the bolts bomber by utilizing the latest technology, as long as the replacement is done in the style of the FAers...Funny, my first time up the Great Arch was in "Earth Shoes" since their crepe soles seemed the best friction I could come up with.....
Oh well, just wanted to chime in, and am sure that clear heads will prevail. Cheers! tk

So I'm relatively new to climbing and the debate is very interesting.

But I don't really understand the argument from the side of ethics/tradition. Maybe someone can develop that idea for me? It seems like many are arguing that improving safety is bad. Safety would always seem good, so I don't understand exactly what is being protected, by not adding protection.

If you like the thrill of danger, can't you always just skip a bolt?

Aren,
Good questions; the answer is that dangerous first ascents are seen as impressive feats of daring completed with nerves of steel; in short heroic achievements. The unknown of the original lead cannot be repeated, but the high risk can. So people wanting to feel like they are nearly as bad ass as the first ascender want to keep the route as much like it was as possible. And they want you and everyone else to climb it like they did or not at all. Otherwise you won't know how bad ass they are.

To bolt something after someone already successfully climbed a route is just pure disrespect.

does that include adding rap stations?

Matthew Blevin wrote:does that include adding rap stations?

That's some whole other shit

If Stone had a bolt every 10 feet, it would be the most boring climbing area on earth.

JCM wrote: If Stone had a bolt every 10 feet, it would be the most boring climbing area on earth.

Almost exactly right (I say almost since some of the stuff on the left end of the south face would still be interesting even then).

"they want you and everyone else to climb it like they did or not at all."

Not to be snarky -- actually it's more of a devil's advocate kind of thing --

The above notion is certainly at the heart of the matter, and is a bold and authentic feeling. I wonder though, Does anyone have the right to declare/decide how a rock formation should be climbed? Don't others have the right to rocks too? These are public places, for the most part. Not everyone can (or should try to) climb the way the FA climbed it. That skill level is rather elite territory and can't be expected of most anyone out there.

Another interesting connection, is the thread on the "sport climbing" page about stick clipping. I was recently on there describing how much I hate stick clipping, for reasons that included my own personal judgments on other climbers for their "style" and their "way" of climbing when they used stick clips. I was blasted for imposing my views on others: "How other people climb is not your business" -- That was the message.

While I understand the need to preserve the integrity of the rock face, and other such practical reasons, I question the idea that certain people get to claim control..... unless of course they own it, or they were selected to manage it through a democratic process.

Blah.Blah.Blah… With the logic being discussed, why don't we just create bolt ladders everywhere. People can feel like aid climbers, sport climbers can do their thing, and tradies can skip all the bolts…

While we're at it we can go ahead and create bolt ladders up every bigwall route in Yosemite, we'll send the Dawn Wall in no time!……Because eventually everything and everywhere will become a shit show and wanna-be climbers will be f-ing everything up. This will lead to serious access issues and more accidents (because idiot will always be idiots), climbing is not for everyone. I'm glad to climb in a state that upholds such strict ethics and respects the game. There are a shit ton of routes that I haven't climbed because there're more bold than I. You don't see me complaining. It turns out there are 49 other states to climb in, and 100's of countries around the entire planet. If you don't like the ethics here…turns out you have other options. Accept it or quit whining. NC is BADASS!!!

Thanks for the reminisces mtnsoceans. I like hearing about the history behind the climbs and I think it helps people understand why things are done the way they were.

Jonathan Dull wrote:Blah.Blah.Blah… With the logic being discussed, why don't we just create bolt ladders everywhere. People can feel like aid climbers, sport climbers can do their thing, and tradies can skip all the bolts… While we're at it we can go ahead and create bolt ladders up every bigwall route in Yosemite, we'll send the Dawn Wall in no time!……Because eventually everything and everywhere will become a shit show and wanna-be climbers will be f-ing everything up. This will lead to serious access issues and more accidents (because idiot will always be idiots), climbing is not for everyone. I'm glad to climb in a state that upholds such strict ethics and respects the game. There are a shit ton of routes that I haven't climbed because there're more bold than I. You don't see me complaining. It turns out there are 49 other states to climb in, and 100's of countries around the entire planet. If you don't like the ethics here…turns out you have other options. Accept it or quit whining. NC is BADASS!!!

Wahhooooo!!! Now if that doesn't sum it up I'm not sure what else will. We come from a very strict place within the world of ethics. Outsiders may never understand why we do it, sometimes I myself wonder why we do it as I stand 50 feet above my last piece of pro. North Carolinians come from a long line of moonshiners, pot growers, ruggedass mountain men, and free spirited hillbillys. There's a cave hidden up in the hollers of Stone Mountain Park that a woman raised her children in after her house burned down one winter(Great Depression era). With nothing but the clothes on their backs and a little bit of food, they were able to survive on wild edibles, bugs, and an occasional rabbit. Oh yeah, and it was one of the harshest winters on record. I shit you not. Her name was Mary and she's buried in the old cemetery off Oklahoma road between Stone Mountain and the park entrance. North Carolina is bad ass, end of story.

No Mary wasn't a rock climber, but that's not the point.