We don't like each other, do we?

Two separate occurrences, two separate conflicts. I am sure this has been discussed ad nauseam before but being a fresh European import, this is the first time I had encountered this problem.

One day me and my partner go to the Gunks and, since the weather is too cold to fiddle with gear, we decide to spend a day bouldering. After doing one of the longish traverses, I said something like "very nice, more like a 7a+ route!" which caused unexplainable wrath of a few bouldering dudes standing near by. Apparently, if it is not done on rope, it HAS TO BE a boulder problem and referring to long traverse as a route is somehow bad. Next time at the Gunks, an older trad climber rants all about how "all this bouldering crowd is ruining the Gunks". I am not even sure what exactly boulderers have done to earn that distinction. C'est quoi ce bordel?

Hating and belligerently debating the minutia of arbitrary things is sort of a past time for both the young and old it seems. Maybe it's just an American thing...

If you're looking for a good explanation, I don't have one other than the weather must be pretty bad in NY right now.

It is quite common for long, enduro bouldering traverses to be compared to routes and described using route grades. This is true across the grade spectrum, and in many different areas. In a lot of areas of the US, there is ample crossover between bouldering an route climbing. I think that the severe antipathy seen between these two communities at the Gunks is a somewhat unique feature of that area. It may be related to the contrast between an overbearingly old-school trad scene and an annoyingly urban bouldering scene. New Yorkish attitudes may have something to do with it too.

Tell them to go suck a cack.

What JCM said. ^

Traddies are not above using bouldering gear (matttress in this case) when it is only thing between them and a hard ground fall. Little factoid - books.google.com/books?id=9…

Then why the fuck do people say "pull the v-whatever boulder move and fire through the crux and onto 5.9 climbing with an easy reach to the anchor"?

Climbing is climbing. It's all relative.

Insecurity is a bitch.

Marek Sapkovski wrote:Two separate occurrences, two separate conflicts. I am sure this has been discussed ad nauseam before but being a fresh European import...

I believe on your side of the pond the individuals involved would be described as "having their knickers in a knot". Apparently some people on this side of the pond have a terribly difficult time putting theirs on straight. Pay 'em no mind, just climb and enjoy.

JCM wrote:I think that the severe antipathy seen between these two communities at the Gunks is a somewhat unique feature of that area.

Nah. You can find "bouldering sucks," "trad sucks," and "sport sucks" threads all over every internet climbing site. The Gunks hasn't come anywhere close to cornering the market on acrimony.

JCM wrote:It may be related to the contrast between an overbearingly old-school trad scene and an annoyingly urban bouldering scene. New Yorkish attitudes may have something to do with it too.

A comprehensive invocation of worn-out regional cliches. New Yorkers, in my experience, are friendlier than many big-city dwellers, for example. The majority of those overbearing old-school traddies boulder as well, and most of the time everyone gets along just fine. As for that "urban" bouldering scene, it seems to me that it came and went a while ago.

By and large, the Gunks is one of the friendlier places to climb and/or boulder I've been to (and I've been around). The OP had two sour incidents and elevated it to something generic.

rgold wrote: The OP had two bad incidents and elevated it to something generic.

True, but also if having someone tell you that giving a traverse a route grade is "wrong" ruins your day, you may not be totally cut out for life in the US. Most Americans are pretty friendly I'd say, but as for the not-insubstantial percentage who aren't, it can get a whole lot worse!

Were you wearing your harness? They hate it when you do that.

Climbers (of all types) are getting weirder and more annoying every day. Hang out with too many of them and you'll want to stop climbing.

I avoid the climbing scene like the plague, even though I climb a lot. Instead, I tend to hang out with surfers and skaters, who happen to think that anything that gets you psyched is cool.

Marek Sapkovski wrote:C'est quoi ce bordel?

WTF sounds so much prettier in French!
...

Gunkies often tend to be defensive about their grades.

You're in NY - everyone down here thinks that they're right and that their opinion matters. It's a bit of a local quirk, learn to love it (or be amused by it).

Marek Sapkovski wrote:Two separate occurrences, two separate conflicts. I am sure this has been discussed ad nauseam before but being a fresh European import, this is the first time I had encountered this problem. One day me and my partner go to the Gunks and, since the weather is too cold to fiddle with gear, we decide to spend a day bouldering. After doing one of the longish traverses, I said something like "very nice, more like a 7a+ route!" which caused unexplainable wrath of a few bouldering dudes standing near by. Apparently, if it is not done on rope, it HAS TO BE a boulder problem and referring to long traverse as a route is somehow bad. Next time at the Gunks, an older trad climber rants all about how "all this bouldering crowd is ruining the Gunks". I am not even sure what exactly boulderers have done to earn that distinction. C'est quoi ce bordel?

very common observation about endurance boulder problems being better rated as route climbs, especially when they have rests invovled.

Marek, like a couple of the others sort of suggested by their responses, learn what the average guy from Boston would say and do that. Work on the accent, though, as it is key. That will shut up most New Yakers.

^^^
Or make them offer you an above market value multi-year contract.

Youklis, Clemons, Boggs, Damon, Ellsbury, and...Marek

rgold wrote:New Yorkers, in my experience, are friendlier than many big-city dwellers, for example.

You know, being a Frenchman of Polish origins, I know what it is to be rude and inconsiderate, but some of the things I see in New York are beyond belief.
Here is another Gunks-based example that I have witnessed - you seem to be a local so you'd recognize the venue. We were bouldering on Suzie A while a party of two girls just finished leading Boston and was getting ready to go up Kens Crack. As they are standing right by the block at the base of Kens Crack, two dudes literally walk around them, scramble up the base block, plug a cam into the crack and start racking up. The girl that was going to lead almost cried and pleaded, but the guys were not moved and proceeded to flail up the crack in a perfect gym-climber fashion. The girls packed up and left.

This said, locals at the Gunks are super-nice, be it the students who seem to mostly boulder or the older trad crowd. I have come to a conclusion that some urban climbers just can't leave the big city attitude behind.

rgold wrote: As for that "urban" bouldering scene, it seems to me that it came and went a while ago. By and large, the Gunks is one of the friendlier places to climb and/or boulder I've been to (and I've been around). The OP had two sour incidents and elevated it to something generic.

You should visit Brooklyn Boulders sometime, that's urban bouldering scene all right. I don't mind that hardcore attitude, actually, as long as there is no hating.

Lay off that dude, he's climbed the Venturi Effect - I bet you couldn't scare him even if you spoke German.

rgold wrote: Nah. You can find "bouldering sucks," "trad sucks," and "sport sucks" threads all over every internet climbing site. The Gunks hasn't come anywhere close to cornering the market on acrimony.

I don't quite agree with you here. While you can find some differences between the bouldering vs. sport vs. trad communities elsewhere, none have approached the separation I have seen in the limited time I have spent at the Gunks. In most areas, it seems like the boulder/sport/trad Venn diagram has a ton of overlap, with many climbers appreciating and identifying with many different types of climbing. Is this true at the Gunks. From what I have seen, not really. Admittedly, the time I have spent there is probably less that 0.1% the number of days you have spent there, so correct me if I am wrong. My perception, though, was that most of the trad climbers at the Gunks rarely/never boulder, and don't really understand it, while the boulderers rarely/never trad climb.

My theory for why this might be is that the Gunks...and the whole state of NY, really, lack sport climbing. Sport climbing is the bridge that connects bouldering and trad. Boulderers might sport climb, which gets them to like climbing routes, which eventually leads them to trad. Trad climbers try sport climbing, which gets them to enjoy trying really hard moves, which leads them to bouldering (this latter scenario is what eventually led me from only trad climbing to enjoying all disciplines). At the Gunks, the bridge doesn't exist; there is a pretty big gulf between the two types of climbing, and thus a pretty big gulf in the climbing/bouldering community.

Again you know the area and scene vastly better than I do, so correct me if I am wrong. Also, my time in the Gunks was mostly 5-10 years ago, so maybe things have changed.