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Improving stamina

Original Post
Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974

By stamina I mean the ability to put in multiple worthwhile burns on a difficult project on the same day.

I have used the Hunter/Hague strategy of CIR/VIR with some success. Just need to be super careful of overtraining.

Somewhere (Kris Hampton's blog?) recently I read an emphatic suggestion that one should start these sessions by FIRST tiring oneself on a hard project, and only then doing the multiple OS level routes.

Any thoughts on this idea? Or suggestions for stamina training in general?

Thanks!

JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115

Not that this answers your question directly, but there are also some tactical factors that can be very helpful for maintaining this sort of session-endurance, including nutrition strategies, resting between burns, etc. I have a few tricks in this department, but by no means can claim to be an expert. As such, in addition to stamina training strategy, stamina-maintenance tactics would also be something to consider, and perhaps worth mentioning here.

Thaddeus Thiggins · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 20

Viagra

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974

Jon, I'd be interested in your tricks if you don't mind sharing.

JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115

Disclaimer: In no way do I claim to be an expert on this. That said, there are a few things that have anecdotally, worked for me. These are mostly tactics, as opposed to training. Also, these are geared most toward steep, enduro type routes (Rifle, etc), as opposed to 4 bolt Rumney powerfests.

A few ideas are below. The basic idea here is that sport climbing stamina is different from all-day long route or milage stamina. I worked these out over this past summer while working of some really tiring long routes in Rifle and Maple. On these routes, at first a single go would wipe me out, and the second go was terrible. I then figured out a few ways to make that second go work better. The goal here is not to be able to keep going and onsight 10 routes in a day... in that case the tactics will be different. The goal here is to simply get in a good quality second (or third) go in on an exhausting route.

-- Nutrition. I have somewhat revamped my thinking about nutrition. In the past, I followed the conventional wisdom of having a mix of complex carbs, protein, and fat to provide a steady energy level throughout the day. This is good for days where you want to be consistently climbing, getting in a lot of pitches, doing long routes, etc. But for hard sport redpointing, the whole day (and in some ways the whole season) can really come down to a few half-hour periods when you need your energy to peak. As such, simple sugars (which I otherwise avoid) are your friend. It is ok to have your energy peak and crash, so long as it peaks at the right time; the crash doesn't matter since after the second go n a route, the day is over anyway. I usually start the day with slow-burning fuel (eggs for breakfast, etc), and then transition to simpler and simpler fuel sources as the day does on. To get going for that second or third redpoint go of the day, a big hit of sugars 15 minutes (think gatorade and fig newtons) will bring the energy level up.

--Rest. Be a lazy shit. I think that a lot of what we do between redpoint attempts uses up more energy than we think. Hiking around, belaying, and all that are still using glycogen and giving you belayer's neck, and tiring you out physically and mentally. If I can lie down and rest completely for 30 minutes in the middle of the climbing day, this really helps me feel refreshed for that second redpoint go. Hammocks are great for this. (Note: I don't go straight from the hammock to climbing; being up and about for a half hour to get limered up again is important too). Take a book to read at the crag; it will keep you from getting bored and moving around too much. A folding chair is nice too. I often carry a folding foam pad (like a 3/4 length z-rest) to the crag to rest on if nothing else is available. Sometimes it can even be nice to take a multi-hour mid-day break (this is a lot easier to do in a place like Rifle), and then do a re-warmup before the second go on the project. There's definitely a place for active days of hiking around and onsighting as many routes as possible. However, if you really just want to have 2 good goes on your 23 bolt mega-rig, it is nice to minimize your extra exertion. Having a partner who is on-board with this lazy-climber program is important. When your partner is psyched to hike to 3 different crags and try a dozen routes, just the belaying will tire you out and use up that resting time.

--Skin. Sometimes the second go (or the second day on) feels harder not because your muscles are tired, but because the skin hurts more. Some preemptive sanding work, plus appropriate use of products like Climb-on and anithydril, will help with this. Another idea I have used: In some cases, fingertip soreness from crimping can be caused not by actually skin damage, but from inflammation of subcutaneous tissue. Think about the second day on at Shelf, when your tips are swollen and hurt, even if the skin is actually OK. Anti-inflammatories help a lot with this. I've never tried using a mild numbing cream on my fingertips, but it is another thing I've though about.

-- Sleep. This should be a no-brainer. You'll do a lot better at 6pm on your third go of the day if you got your 9-10 hours of sleep the night before. If going to Rifle or Shelf, I definitely prefer driving on Friday evening instead of getting up at 6 am on Saturday.

--Aerobic fitness. This is more a training thing. In my limited anecdotal experience, I have found that I can get better second and third goes in at times where my general physical/aerobic fitness is higher. I think that being able to efficiently manage and replenish glycogen has a lot to do with it. Yes, I do think that (limited amounts of) running, etc can help with this (just climbing a lot of endurance routes probably helps even more). Note that this (the running point) goes against what the hangboard mafia likes to say, who will likely soon come on and prove me wrong by citing principles of specificity, etc. Whatever.

--Having two projects. No matter what you do, it can be hard to give the same project multiple good goes in a day. A power route drains your power, an enduro routes drains your endurance energy level. You can increase the number of good project goes in the day by splitting these goes between two routes, especially if the styles differ. Perhaps find a techy, vert route that taxes crimp power, and an enduro--jug-thug cave route. If possible, work the vert/crimp route first, and when your fingers feel tired, move on to the enduro/jug route. The finger fatigue from the first route, while it might prevent another good go on a crimpy route, shouldn't bother you too much on the steep jug hauling.

Again, these are mostly tactical considerations to get the most out of the stamina you have. Training to increase that stamina is another topic, which hopefully someone more knowledgeable will weigh in on.

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

i think it greatly depends on what type of routes you want to do multiple burns on - ie, does the route have a brutal boulder problem start and an easy finish, or is it a long PE route. i find that i have better stamina for multiple attempts at a brutal start, and only have about 3 attempts (at best) for a long PE route.

either of these will probably require a specific approach. i think the CIR/VIR workouts (bouldering or routes) are probably the best option.

Monomaniac · · Morrison, CO · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 17,295
JCM wrote: the hangboard mafia
I'm a legitimate businessman.
Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974
slim wrote:i think it greatly depends on what type of routes you want to do multiple burns on - ie, does the route have a brutal boulder problem start and an easy finish, or is it a long PE route. i find that i have better stamina for multiple attempts at a brutal start, and only have about 3 attempts (at best) for a long PE route. either of these will probably require a specific approach. i think the CIR/VIR workouts (bouldering or routes) are probably the best option.
Climbing stuff in Boulder Canyon and Clear Creek, Sucking, Animal Instinct, the usual 12c's, so mostly bouldery.
JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115
Monomaniac wrote: I'm a legitimate businessman.
"But if you don't do your repeaters I'm gonna send Vinny over to break your kneecaps."
JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115
Mark E Dixon wrote: Climbing stuff in Boulder Canyon and Clear Creek, Sucking, Animal Instinct, the usual 12c's, so mostly bouldery.
Kris Hampton has also made some good blog posts about tactics for these sorts of routes. One idea he has mentioned is that if your first go of the day isn't expected to go well, to use this as part of the warmup (bolt to bolt) instead of making it a true max-effort redpoint go. This would probably work well on something like Sucking. He says:

1. 3 or 4 bolt Bouldery Crux, Right Off the Deck. If you're in redpoint mode, and you aren't counting attempts, then a surefire way to warm up in this situation is to stickclip as high as you can and then go bolt to bolt through the initial difficulties, taking it easy and getting your muscles firing. At the top of the crux, where the difficulty eases considerably, lower off, pull the rope, and rest for 15-20 minutes. Then fire it. You'll be through the crux before you know it, and on your way to the chains.

Full post (lots more info, worth reading) here:
powercompanyclimbing.com/20…
frankstoneline · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 30
JCM wrote:--Aerobic fitness. This is more a training thing. In my limited anecdotal experience, I have found that I can get better second and third goes in at times where my general physical/aerobic fitness is higher. I think that being able to efficiently manage and replenish glycogen has a lot to do with it. Yes, I do think that (limited amounts of) running, etc can help with this (just climbing a lot of endurance routes probably helps even more). Note that this (the running point) goes against what the hangboard mafia likes to say, who will likely soon come on and prove me wrong by citing principles of specificity, etc. Whatever.
I was sport climbing and bouldering as hard as I ever have (not very) while keeping up a pretty steady stream of aerobic activity coupled with a hearty helping of hangboarding. I think the key is to keep intensity low, and make sure you arent detracting from your ability to recover/pull down (think high/low approach as discussed some on the powercompany blog of late, a link is somewhere up page). I found the sweet spot to be rides between 25 and 40 miles on the road, nice gentle warmup for the first 5, then a bit of pushing, but nothing over the top and at least 3 miles of cool down speeds (for me thats about 15 mph in the warm up/cool down and 18-20 for the more focused bit, on fairly flat terrain).

Another thing I've noticed is that my water intake plays a huge part in my ability to climb. I think I'm typically chronically dehydrated, so if I know i'm climbing tomorrow or this afternoon I try and hydrate ahead of time and keep drinking constantly (not necessarily a lot, just a constant intake) throughout the day. Helps loads.
slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

JCM's idea from Kris Hampton works pretty well. For afterwork/bad weather gym training, i think the CIR bouldering workouts are pretty helpful (if you can find problems that are similar to the routes you are doing).

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974

Thanks for all the ideas.

The suggestion I reference in my opening post actually came from Bill Ramsey in Matt Samet's book "The Crag Survival Guide." I believe it may also be excerpted in the Climbing Magazine Walmart issue.

I did some sessions last winter trying to climb 30 x 3-4 spot routes at the Spot in 30 minutes, which seemed to help my stamina. Local hardman Jim Redo suggested 40 x 4 spots in an hour. That seems better, if I can actually do it.

More interested in routes this year though.

Gabe Schwartz · · Hope Valley · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 5
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Buck Rogers · · USAF Academy, CO · Joined Nov 2018 · Points: 240
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amarius · · Nowhere, OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 20

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Buck Rio · · MN · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 16
Mark E Dixon wrote: By stamina I mean the ability to put in multiple worthwhile burns on a difficult project on the same day. I have used the Hunter/Hague strategy of CIR/VIR with some success. Just need to be super careful of overtraining. Somewhere (Kris Hampton's blog?) recently I read an emphatic suggestion that one should start these sessions by FIRST tiring oneself on a hard project, and only then doing the multiple OS level routes. Any thoughts on this idea? Or suggestions for stamina training in general? Thanks!

Hi Mark, your profile says you are 62 years old. I appreciate that you are putting so much thought and effort into training, but father time is not on your side I'm afraid. I am also dealing with muscle loss and reduced stamina, along with decreased flexibility and general grumpiness.

Yoga has helped a bit, and I am utilizing a trainer that know how to get the most from older clients without injuring them.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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