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Aid Goals and dreaming big. How do I start

Original Post
Roman G · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 205

So being that I plan (hope) to climb El Cap in 8-10 years ( I am recently turned 25 ) or someother big wall, I will be climbing aid, french and free (thats assuming I can lead 5.10s by that time...)

My goal for next year, is to lead harder grades and get better and improve my technique - so I can climb harder grades (for self evaluation purposes not for grade chasing)

Another goal is to dive into aid.

Here is my plan: Take my full rack, get on an easy climb - it would have to be a crack since i dont have any bird beaks or talon hooks or any aid specific gear, and using aiders make my way up. I understand the mechanics as far as moving up with gear on aiders. Will also be purchasing Chris McM's how to climb big walls/aid for he really dives into it I hear.

My first year of aid will be at a local crag (here at the Gunks, NY) assumming i can do this once a month, for my heart really aches for trad. I will mostly be getting out solo for aid climbing and doing Solo aid on TR or something.

Is this a good way to start learning it? doing solo aid that is? I dont know anyone who climbs aid, but i had great teachers who taught me trad and I have common sense and desire. I understand and constantly practice and thinker with rigging, hauling, gear and all that.

At the end of the day, realisticly speaking I know I will never climb 12s and probobly will never see 11s so aid will give me an apportunity to get on big walls or incredible climbs I would never be able to free.

Marc H · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2007 · Points: 265

Cathedral Ledge in NH is a good place to find some multi-pitch aid routes.

Matt Kuehl · · Las Vegas · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 1,712

You've got the right idea so far. I would start with Chris's book, its a great resource and dives into a lot of things that can be easily overlooked or under practiced. The format of the book is also aimed at people who want to climb The Nose and provides exercises, goals, gear needed, etc, in a way that would encounter it/need to use it for the grade you would be climbing. So easy techniques first, gradually expanded and becoming more involved and/or advanced. Check that out it will answer a lot of questions.

Side note: Before getting into aid it's probably wise to become a skilled and proficient trad climber. Which you might already be but just putting it out there.

As far as practice, a little depends on what is available. I am not familiar with the Gunks to make any aid recommendations there. But either way I found aid bouldering a fun way to get used to moving in the aiders and testing your gear. When it rips then you just fall a little bit back to ground. Just enough to keep your attention. Solo TR would be fine but a more advanced set up with its own risks. Avoid hooking and beaks etc until you really think you need to. Also only do it on rock that is either an actual aid route or someplace people don't free climb so you don't damage the rock unnecessarily.

Aid can be rad with the right people and terrain so enjoy. But don't rule out being able to climb 11's and 12's in 8-10 years!

Andrew Gram · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 3,725

No need to take 10 years. You can do a grade V in a year or two and see how it goes.

Don't bother buying any aid gear or practicing it at all until you get the Chris M guide and really study it. It took me years to break all of the bad habits i learned from bullshit on the internet.

The best practice you can do is to get in as many huge mileage trad days as you can, with an emphasis on anchor efficiency. Try to get in 20-30+ pitches at the Gunks in a day most times you go. Climb hard at the beginning of the day, and then just go as fast as you can on the 5.easy routes after that to get pitches in. Nothing makes you more efficient than tons of milesage.

Solo aid climbing isn't all that great a way to learn since it is hard to work on being efficient when you are dealing with the additional cluster of learning to rope solo. I learned mostly rope soloing at the Gunks, and again it has taken me years to break the bad habits I learned from climbing inefficiently. Use solo time in the winter to practice jugging, hauling, etc. Find a partner for aid climbing - its usually not that hard to find someone psyched to learn, and its a good thing to do in the winter when it is too cold for free climbing. Also, don't hop on the classic Gunks aid routes that go out huge roofs right away. That also taught me bad habits since i started approaching everything with the complexity big roofs require. Do lots of laps on vertical free routes like Rhododendron, Ken's Crack, Nosedive/Retribution, etc. This is where climbing in the winter comes in so you don't interfere with people free climbing.

Mickey Sensenbach · · San luis obispo CA · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 140

"8-10 years"

I started climbing when i was 12!! now i am 16 and have climbed el cap 4 times... not to seem to spray but in 3 years I got better at top roping/lead climbing/and getting out of shit situations. that was all free climbing and I never thought about aiding but mearly thought it was cheating. about 6 months ago I got the big wall/aid climbing bug! after about 2 months of training the lower outs and such i went for the nose, bailed at the boot flake!!! month after climbed the whole thing and then zodiac then shield then NIAP!!!! so when you say 8-10 years... all I have learned from wall climben is all you need is stoke! I bet your butt you could climb el cap by next season if this winter you just learn and get stoked!!!!!!!! good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

aSteel · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 235

Get lots of practice in the things that big walls have that are easy to avoid otherwise.

- Wide cracks
- Runout face climbing
- General suffering
- Long days high up, looking down at the tops of trees
- Days and days sitting in a harness
- Lots of pitches of aid
- Complex anchor systems
- Hauling
- Routefinding over long routes
- 5.9 endurance, not 5.12 hang-dogging.
- Did I mention suffering?

A lot of this you can start with out east, but to get the whole list you'll need to spend some time out west, ideally in California. The Valley overwhelms a lot of people the first time they go, and I'd recommend a first trip with minimal ambition to get a taste.

For some this road is short, for others it is very long. Have faith, work hard, don't give up and it will happen. Good luck!

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349
"Don't bother buying any aid gear or practicing it at all until you get the Chris M guide and really study it."

Nonsense! Though it's for sure a good idea to get Chris' book and read up/study etc..., there is no reason not to get right on it ASAfukingP!

That is so long as you already have the basic climbing skills already down.
cjdrover · · Watertown, MA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 355

Roman,

Some advice from someone a little farther along this road than you are. I live in Boston and split my climbing time between North Conway and the Gunks.

- Dream bigger! 8-10 years is overkill! With modest effort you can get on your first wall in the next year or two.

- There is plenty of practice to do alone, but start thinking about who you are going with. You'll need to get your system dialed, and the system includes your partner. That being said, don't underestimate the practice required to get really proficient at jumaring and moving in aiders. You might *think* you understand the mechanics, but the first time you try it you'll realize that "understanding" and "proficiency" are miles apart.

- Don't rob yourself of the experience by going with a much more experienced big wall partner. You are only going to get to do your first big wall once, and IMHO it will be infinitely more rewarding if it is your partner's first as well. Some may disagree, and the chance of bailing is drastically higher, but in the end it will be one of the most memorable experiences of your life.

- The Gunks is a start, but the rock is unlike anything you'll find on a big wall. Hit the Dacks or NH. There are a number of easy multipitch aid lines at Cathedral, and some more serious ones at Cannon. I'm sure the Dacks are loaded too but I'm not as familiar. Keep in mind that in the northeast, aid ratings in guidebooks are generally not listed once it has been freed. The back of the Webster guidebook has a list of aid climbs in NH that are now free.

- Keep free climbing. 5.10 free, or even french free, is much faster than C1. And focus on granite crags, Adirondack, Cannon, Cathedral, etc.

- Don't mess around with solo aid leading. You will find a good partner. I meet people who are interested in big walls all the time in NE.

Good luck!

Chris

David A · · Gardnerville, NV · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 405

Dude, you totally got this. 7 months ago I dove head first into the aid/big wall game (had only climbed a couple easy pitches of C1 previously) and it isn't too bad.

JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115
cjdrover wrote:The Gunks is a start, but the rock is unlike anything you'll find on a big wall. Hit the Dacks or NH.
This is a really valuable point, and worth reiterating. The Gunks are an amazing crag, and will help you learn a lot about trad skills and climbing in general, but climbing only at the Gunks would leave you lacking some critical skills that you'll need in Yosemite. Everyone's mind immediately goes to crack climbing as something you'll need to learn for Yosemite, and this is a big part of it, but don't neglect the slabs either. Most climbing is Yosemite (admittedly, less so on something like El Cap) involve some sort of slab climbing. Wide cracks (OW and chimneys) are something to practice too. Anyway, none of these skills can really be learned at the Gunks, but the Dacks and NH will provide the opportunities you need to practice these skills.

It sounds like you are a relatively new trad climber, and at this stage probably the best thing you can do is to simply work of developing overall as a climber. It is perhaps too early to focus right in on aid skills. Instead, spend as much time climbing multipitch trad routes as possible. Get more efficient with placing gear, building anchors, and doing all the logistical stuff (like rope management at a belay). Get comfortable leading 5.10 cracks in the Dacks. Learn routefinding skills, and how to get yourself out of tricky off-route situations. Just get faster, better, and more solid as a climber, and do this by going climbing. A lot. Find more experienced partners to learn from, and actively think about your climbing systems. All of these skills will translate well once you move into big walls, but will also open up a lot of multipitch free climbing terrain for you as well. Just going out and getting experience on multipitch routes is a lot more fun than solo-aiding some 40 foot practice crack, and will also take for farther in the long run. Also, your chances of success on a wall will be greater if you have a solid, well rounded background as a trad climber.

Some crag reccomendations: In the Dacks, spend time at the multipitch crags around Keene Valley (Washbowl, Hurricane, Pitchoff, etc) and at Pokomoonshine. Both will help you learn how to climb granite cracks and slabs. In NH, Cathedral has a lot to offer too; the style of rock and of climbing there is actually quite Yosemite-esque. Once you start feeling more solid on cracks, spend some time at the Spiders Web (near Keene Valley). This is an extraordinary crack climbing crag, at which you can really refine your technique. Then, once you feel solid on cracks and the shorter multi-pitch routes, start doing bigger routes at Wallface and Cannon. In addition to teaching you good long-route skills, climbing at these places is a damn good adventure.

Once you've done all this, over the span of a year or two, then it is time to start filling in the aid-specific skills. Having already developed better rope and gear management skills (and doing it the fun way, by actually climbing), the aid/wall skills will come quickly. Good places to do some "medium-wall" climbing in the northeast would be Wallface and Cannon.
JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115

Also: a little road trip down to Looking Glass (North Carolina, near Asheville) would be super worthwhile once you start getting the aid basics figured out and want to do some proper aid routes. Good east-coast medium wall climbing.

5.samadhi Süñyātá · · asheville · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 40
Christopher Allan wrote:Mickey, please tone down the stoke. Or, alternatively, the exclamation points.
you're kinda be douchey to tell a sixteen year old kid to tone down his stoke for climbing.
mucci · · sf ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 655

Jeremy just spoke the truth.

Dude is my hero!

What up bro!

Ryan N · · Bellingham, WA · Joined May 2009 · Points: 195

1. Get Chris Mac's book and read it.
2. Get some hooks, beaks, pitons, and heads.
3. Go down to the local crag and find a shifty boulder to go scratch up.
4. GET THAT FUCKIN SYSTEM DIALED.

Aid climbing on free climbing gear ie cams and nuts isn't all that difficult. When you start using hook etc, that's when shit gets tricky.

Like people have said just go out and do it. I learned to aid by fixing a rope to a tree and rope soloing.

Last, ask yourself why aid? Do you have a specific route in mind? Many of the classics like The Nose can be done with minimal trickery vs something like Zodiac where aid is mandatory. Point is, big wall and aid climbing don't have to go together (unless you are a mortal).

People who say aid climbing isn't climbing, don't aid climb...

Kip Kasper · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 200

read Cmacs articles on supertopo, but realize that they're geared towards the ultimate goal of climbing the nose. Reading stuff on the internet, but it pales in comparison to getting out as much as you can. Solo aiding is a great way to learn. The solo system isn't any slower than climbing with a partner once you get it down (at least leading), and you don't have to convince anyone to sit around and belay you for hours.

get out there. You could get up the big stone this spring if you really wanted to.

Kevin DeWeese · · @failfalling - Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 981

I've got Cmacs, Longs, Strassmans, and Ogden's Bigwall Instruction books and Jared Ogden's Bigwall Climbing: Elite Technique on Mountaineers Books is by far the best (with a large section on roped soloing that isn't found in the other bigwall books.)

---
TR soloing and then roped-lead soloing is the best way to get good, fast.

Positives:
-You never feel self-conscious about how long the partner is having to belay.
-You get to practice leading AND cleaning (two completely different sciences with different tricks and techniques)
-Carrying the weight of a solo-aid pack makes all of your other approaches (even bigwall with a partner) a piece of cake.
- You never have to worry about your partner being light-duty and wanting to bail just because it's raining and you're wearing cotton, and the rope's got a core-shot, and you're moving too slow for the amount of water and food you brought, and it's the fifth hook in a row.

Negatives:
-You F up, no one is there to go for help. (practice in areas with cell service)
-Easier to lose stoke and give up for some people.

Roman G · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 205

Guys, this has been super helpful and encouraging. Thank you all who contributed. These are very excellent points.

I think the plan is clear as far as aid goes. Get some material, study study study...get some gear and practice practice practice. I will mostly be TR soloing aid ( Still not sure which system I will go with ) in the beginning.

CMACs book will probably be my choice because ultimately I do want to climb The Nose. But I'm sure I will be able to apply it to any big wall.

As far as free climbing grades go, its rather discouraging at times, How I am able to sport climb lead 8s and follow 9s in red rocks but scare myself shitless leading on a second pitch of 5.2 in the gunks is unbeknown to me (but that might of have been with a high reach I just couldn’t get to with a shitty small nut).

Also hope to take a trip to Red Rocks this upcoming early spring as winter time gets way to chilly. In hopes of doing some trad (cat in the hat, solar slab and up) and sport.

I’m giving myself plenty of time hence 8-10 years. But if my progress really shoots up I may make it in 5.

Thanks guys

Nick Zmyewski · · Newark, DE · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 250

If you're good at suffering its easy. Just bring extra water (you'll suffer more hauling), but then you won't have as many reasons to bail when you can take your time without fear of running out of water. And by the top, the bag will be light either way. The Nose isn't half as hard as people make it seem to be. You just have to be willing to keep going, taking it a day at a time.

William Sonoma · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 3,550

OP says: As far as free climbing grades go, its rather discouraging at times, How I am able to sport climb lead 8s and follow 9s in red rocks but scare myself shitless leading on a second pitch of 5.2 in the gunks is unbeknown to me (but that might of have been with a high reach I just couldn’t get to with a shitty small nut).

dude 5.2s at the Gunks are scary. theyre blocky and alot of times not a safe fall. get comfortable placing that gear then get on routes where there is a safe fall potential therefore if you do fall ATLEAST itd be a more positive experience (because your gears gonna hold of course).

dont be too hard on yourself, climbings hard and scary. effort = eventual no effort and more fun/relaxation.

Marc H · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2007 · Points: 265
Roman G wrote:study study study...get some gear and practice practice practice.
I would suggest study, practice, study, practice, etc.

Roman wrote:As far as free climbing grades go, its rather discouraging at times, How I am able to sport climb lead 8s and follow 9s in red rocks but scare myself shitless leading on a second pitch of 5.2 in the gunks is unbeknown to me (but that might of have been with a high reach I just couldn’t get to with a shitty small nut).
Two things. The Gunks was developed well before RR and therefore their ratings are a lot more stiff. RR sport grades don't equate to Gunks trad ratings. Also, aid climbing will help you get over any "gear fear" you currently have. You'll learn what will and will not hold; you'll probably learn that dubious-looking placements will hold better than you originally thought.

Don't forget to have fun too!

Roman wrote:I’m giving myself plenty of time hence 8-10 years. But if my progress really shoots up I may make it in 5.
It cain't hurt to aim for two years. You never know.
Wes Goulding · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 10

Good topic.

I agree with all of the above.

After going the first few times with a buddy, I realized I could learn more and have no down time by just aid soloing. Half of the day is waisted while you belay for instance. There is a steep learning curve but all the info is out there. Be safe.

Youtube it! All of Cmacs how to aid climb vids are there as well as TONS of other stuff.

I was also fortunate to live by a quarry that has a bunch of bolts all over it. After I was able to get to the anchors using everything including the bolts I switched to only using the bolts for pro but not progress. I guess the next step will be not using the bolts at all.

Good luck

Wes

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Big Wall and Aid Climbing
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