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Advice for Developing Wilderness Trad

chosspector · · San Juans, CO · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 1,296

Troll?

chosspector · · San Juans, CO · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 1,296

So douchie to post something like this........

Tim Camuti · · Strafford, VT · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 286

WILDERNESS = NO BOLTS.
No bolts or human alteration to the rock whatsoever is allowed in federal wilderness areas. Trad only.
These areas are MORE restrictive than national parks. No permanent anchors are allowed. It is that simple.

Kip Kasper · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 200

coulda sworn that hand drilling was okay in the wilderness, but he wrote in all caps so I guess I was wrong.

Max Supertramp · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 95

you are already SOL now that you posted to the interwebz.

from roaring fork climbers' site re: bolt anchors on USFS wilderness lands:

"Power drills are not allowed in wilderness areas. Bolts are generally allowed via hand drilling."

ChefMattThaner · · Lakewood, co · Joined May 2013 · Points: 246
Tim Camuti wrote:WILDERNESS = NO BOLTS. No bolts or human alteration to the rock whatsoever is allowed in federal wilderness areas. Trad only. These areas are MORE restrictive than national parks. No permanent anchors are allowed. It is that simple.
Tim I believe that position is not as black and white as you are posing it. From my experience most wilderness areas in Colorado, there is simply a ban on placing bolts using power drills. Maybe that is only because most all our wilderness areas are in national forests and therefore the only people really maintaining/looking after these areas are the NPS.
BWIce · · Ithaca, NY · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 70

I think it depends on the culture of the locals. There are many a lines in the Adirondacks that could be made safer with bolts, but the ground-up culture is very real and very involved. Do some FA's, write a guide book, remind folks about the wilderness preserve expectations, and (if you're willing to stand by your principles) do some patrolling with bolt cutters. Otherwise, trust climbers to use their own judgement and get out there and have fun.

Howard Snell · · Belen, New Mexico · Joined May 2010 · Points: 80

Most wilderness areas on federal public lands fall under the management polices of the BLM, Forest Service, and / or National Park Service. Each of these agencies has their own set of rules/interpretations regarding human activities in wilderness areas. In New Mexico the BLM expresses a no bolts policy - it doesn't matter how they are placed (hand drill or power drill) - placing bolts is not authorized in NM BLM Wilderness or Wilderness Study Areas (at least that was the policy when I checked with their wilderness office this summer). The Forest Service may not have a universal policy other than no power drilling. I have heard that different forest districts can have different policies regarding whether or not hand drilling is allowed. I think the National Park Service has recently formalized a general policy regarding permanent anchors within National Park administered Wilderness Areas and I think the general policy allows different parks to have different policies regarding hand drilling.

It's actually pretty easy to get an answer from the management agency responsible for an area you might be concerned with - just give their office a call and ask to speak to their person in charge of interpreting wilderness policy. Of course once you have the answer you may not like it.

Howard

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,812
Keenan Waeschle wrote:coulda sworn that hand drilling was okay in the wilderness, but he wrote in all caps so I guess I was wrong.
Hand drilling is okay in the wilderness (USFS) that is closest to me. And bolting is not allowed at all in a wilderness (BLM) that is about a 2 hour drive.

Before bolting, check with the land managers for each specific area whether USFS, BLM, etc..

(Howard beat me to it - Hello Howard!)
camhead · · Vandalia, Appalachia · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 1,240
ChefMattThaner wrote: Maybe that is only because most all our wilderness areas are in national forests and therefore the only people really maintaining/looking after these areas are the NPS.
Land Management Agency Fail.

The National Park Service (NPS) does not "maintain" and "look after" National Forest areas. They are two completely different agencies, under two completely different departments.
Zach Myers · · Durango, CO · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 50

A wilderness area can be designated within a National Forest, a National Park, BLM land, or on Federal Fish and Wildlife land. Whichever the wilderness is designated in is the office that manages the Wilderness as per the Wilderness Act of 1964. On another note my home crag, Granite Mountain in the Granite Mountain Wilderness is managed by the Forest Service and they forbid the placing of any new bolts or anchors by any means. The only thing you are allowed to do is replace existing unsafe bolts with a hand drill. I bet lots of Wilderness Areas are similar and either don't allow new bolts or require some pain in the ass permit to place them legally.

Pine Cone Dave · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 0

Nope no troll here. Great responses everyone, keep 'em coming.

ChefMattThaner · · Lakewood, co · Joined May 2013 · Points: 246
camhead wrote: Land Management Agency Fail. The National Park Service (NPS) does not "maintain" and "look after" National Forest areas. They are two completely different agencies, under two completely different departments.
Thank you for pointing out my typo, I obviously meant NFS not NPS.

Please come back when you have something constructive to add to this thread.
Pine Cone Dave · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 0

Hmm I have noticed mention of 'Wilderness Study Areas'' in a couple of the above posts. Anybody know where to find maps showing such boundaries?
Also, kind of an aside...what about private property? Where can someone go and see maps showing actual property lines in relation to climbing areas/potential climbing areas? Some county office I assume?
-PCD

James Hicks · · Fruita, CO · Joined May 2012 · Points: 131

You can download KML files that show boundaries for most areas. As an example search for your state and then" BLM Land KML" in google, and the plug it into google earth.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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