Do you stick clip? Why or why not?

LOL Jorde

When something is either gonna keep me safe (OR) possible jack me up...i usually go with keepin it safe. Who cares about the style when it comes to something basic like that. If you get f-ed up bad enough it'll keep you from climbing...and that's the last thing you prob want.

The Stoned Master wrote:Doug said: Never considered this as an ethics question. It is interesting because I hadnt seen it posed that way before. One point of view running through my mind was "if the first ascensionist didnt stick clip should I"? NOW I dont think others, anyone else needs to think that way. Its personal to me and I am not against stck clipping, just trying to figure out exactly how I feel and think about my own personal experience(s). stick clipping makes sense if there is a negative (relative) consequence to me. i dont get paid to be out here (wouldnt matter anyways), I just want to create as many experiences as possible (lots of routes, lots of variety with features, route distance and difficulty). learn from them and continue moving, never stop moving...

The question about what the first ascensionist did and whether it should change how you approach the route is one of style, not ethics. The only person affected by your decision is you.

Now, if you decide not to stick clip a high first bolt with a tricky sequence just below, or solo to a first bolt on rock that may be suspect, while relying on the kindness of strangers for possible emergency response... Well, that might be a question of ethics.

Since moving from New England my local area now is the tunnel in southern New Mexico. Known for its hard bouldery sport climbs. The crag sits on a steep hill side with a thin landing below the climbs. Most of the climbs start with a very high first bolt, it was intended to stick clip here and if you did not I would say your pretty dumb. Risking an ankle or leg injury or falling off the landing does not seem worth it. Especially seeing how most of the starts are hard and bouldery. I see nothing wrong with stick clipping as a precaution anywhere you are climbing regardless of the grade, there are no rules in this sport just ethics do what you are comfortable with fuck the rest.

Peter Jackson wrote:Here in Rumney, a stick clip on the first bolt is common, expected in certain places, and in most cases would not negate a redpoint. Stick clipping the second bolt would negate a redpoint.

Even for Rumney, that's an overgeneralization. On Things As They Are Now, the first bolt is in a bad place. Your best bet is to skip B1 and stick clip B2.

In this pic you'll see bolt 1 just above my left foot:



The crux is right above B1. Very jarring to fall on it repeatedly. Better to skip it and clip B2. It also keeps the rope out of the way - think about where it would lie in the pic above if it were clipped to B1.

GO

I only bring my stick climb on long multi-pitch bolted aid routes. Everyone tells me I am a sissy but I think its better to be safe than sorry.

GabeO wrote:Even for Rumney, that's an overgeneralization. On Things As They Are Now, the first bolt is in a bad place. Your best bet is to skip B1 and stick clip B2.

I don't really care which bolt it is, if I'm going to stick clip a climb I'll clip the highest one I can reach from the ground with my 8ft stick. If there's more than one bolt within that space then the first bolt was probably bolted to low to begin with anyways.

I don't just stick clip to protect myself, I also do it to protect my belayer. If the belay area is sketchy, clipping into something will prevent you both from tumbling down a hill or into a cactus or something in the case of a fall. Similarly, taking a fall onto a low first bolt has a good chance of launching my belayer's face up into my flailing feet, especially since I'm 60lbs heavier than my usual belayer (115lbs vs 175lbs). So, even if it wouldn't necessarily be a groundfall, I'll do whatever I can to make the climb safer for everyone involved.

Good morning haters. Dont know if this point has been addressed above, but some first bolts are intentionally placed to be stick-clipped and would be nearly impossible to clip by climbing to them.

Absolutely. When the start is near my limit (and a bit runout off the ground) or the rock quality looks uncertain.

I stick clip trad routes :/

5.samadhi wrote: I stick clip trad routes :/

everyone should. much safer that way. i hate when i place the first piece too high so its then hard to stick clip (especially after the long down climb). takes practice to get this technique down, but once you do the safety you feel is worth it.

I hate stick clipping.

I think it's cheesey and it ruins the whole idea of the sport climb. For me getting to the first bolt is the best part of the whole experience. If you can't get it clean, then why bother?

But that's just me. Others can do what they want. I will judge you, and essentially hate your stick clip. Sorry if that's not kosher.

Russ Keane wrote:I hate stick clipping. I think it's cheesey and it ruins the whole idea of the sport climb. For me getting to the first bolt is the best part of the whole experience. If you can't get it clean, then why bother? But that's just me. Others can do what they want. I will judge you, and essentially hate your stick clip. Sorry if that's not kosher.

Exactly!!!!

Part of me agrees with Russ. I prefer to do it without the stick clip, but I also understand the need to do it in certain situations. You won't find me carrying a "stick clip", but if I feel the need to clip the first bolt I'm not beyond using one. In the end it comes down to what makes you feel safe and have fun so I won't judge you if you do, but I generally will not.

Russ Keane wrote:I hate stick clipping. I think it's cheesey and it ruins the whole idea of the sport climb. For me getting to the first bolt is the best part of the whole experience. If you can't get it clean, then why bother? But that's just me. Others can do what they want. I will judge you, and essentially hate your stick clip. Sorry if that's not kosher.

I agree. If you can't onsight something then why bother? Why do people even use protection at all anyway? I think anyone that uses a rope is a wuss and I will judge them.

Stick Clip...I think you meant to say Chicken Stick.

Couldn't resist.

If I could get someone to preplace all the screws, I'd be stick clipping ice too to save the hands from cold freezing finger numbing frostbite that I get so easily these days.

Right- It is lame of me to judge others. I know. But ask yourself this:

If someone brought a ladder, and used it to place their first piece of gear on a trad lead, and clipped it, then came down and started their lead -- Would this also be ok? No judgment, right? A ladder.

So at some point there is a line in the sand. You DO impose yourself on others. I personally do not like stick clipping, and I don't like seeing others use it. I enjoy the vicarious enjoyment of seeing others clean lead sport climbs, especially the bottom sections. I LOVE the first bolt of climbs. I am a boulderer at heart. Stick clipping is just contrary to my taste.

Jake Jones wrote:I stick clip because I don't want the guy that's going to lead the route to get hurt.

Nice.

Russ Keane wrote:Right- It is lame of me to judge others. I know. But ask yourself this: If someone brought a ladder, and used it to place their first piece of gear on a trad lead, and clipped it, then came down and started their lead -- Would this also be ok? No judgment, right? A ladder. So at some point there is a line in the sand. You DO impose yourself on others. I personally do not like stick clipping, and I don't like seeing others use it. I enjoy the vicarious enjoyment of seeing others clean lead sport climbs, especially the bottom sections. I LOVE the first bolt of climbs. I am a boulderer at heart. Stick clipping is just contrary to my taste.

LOL. That has got to be one of the weakest rants ever. Do share, Russ, how long have you been climbing? To what level of climbing proficiency has your bold anti-stick clipping style allowed you to progress? 5.8? 5.9D?

Seriously, while I too appreciate ground-up, onsight climbing, I find your fundamentalist fervor and concern over the style in which others climb to be amusing.