Weed at the crag

ChefMattThaner, just to be clear, your source cites levels up to 30ng/ml detected in urine from passive marijuana smoke inhalation in a test, presumably with normal hydration status. Urine concentration varies depending upon hydration status, which is often dry when climbing with climbers. 50ng/ml is cited as an arbitrary cutoff used. 15ng/ml is cited as a follow-up test cutoff. Clinical experience has shown individuals with positive THC tests with second hand marijuana inhalation.

There are other considerations, too, like some individuals do not want lung irritants and resultant coughing for subjective reasons.

The point of this is to be considerate to others around who may not want to inhale second hand marijuana smoke in public locations. It's really a matter of respecting others while out climbing.

Leo, thank you! Finally a reasonable thought!
no, I am not responsible for mental health of others. The only person whose mental health I could be liable for is my boyfriend, frankly. My patients already come crazy and I do not make any clinical decisions, only follow doctor's orders and report my assessments. I like it that way.

Leo Paik wrote:ChefMattThaner, just to be clear, your source cites levels up to 30ng/ml detected in urine from passive marijuana smoke inhalation in a test, presumably with normal hydration status. Urine concentration varies depending upon hydration status, which is often dry when climbing with climbers. 50ng/ml is cited as an arbitrary cutoff used. 15ng/ml is cited as a follow-up test cutoff. Clinical experience has shown individuals with positive THC tests with second hand marijuana inhalation. There are other considerations, too, like some individuals do not want lung irritants and resultant coughing for subjective reasons. The point of this is to be considerate to others around who may not want to inhale second hand marijuana smoke in public locations. It's really a matter of respecting others while out climbing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blQSkyCNATY

Leo Paik wrote:ChefMattThaner, just to be clear, your source cites levels up to 30ng/ml detected in urine from passive marijuana smoke inhalation in a test, presumably with normal hydration status. Urine concentration varies depending upon hydration status, which is often dry when climbing with climbers. 50ng/ml is cited as an arbitrary cutoff used. 15ng/ml is cited as a follow-up test cutoff. Clinical experience has shown individuals with positive THC tests with second hand marijuana inhalation. There are other considerations, too, like some individuals do not want lung irritants and resultant coughing for subjective reasons. The point of this is to be considerate to others around who may not want to inhale second hand marijuana smoke in public locations. It's really a matter of respecting others while out climbing.

As the post above reaffirms you are wrong wrong wrong on your first paragraph. To your second and third; my girlfriend is allergic to bananas and gets uncomfortably nauseas at the smell of bananas. There are many things at the crag that bother many people. I hate small children at the crag more than anything. Yet I allow these things to go on all the time. If you personally have a problem with someone smoking around you then ask them to stop. Myself and everyone I know would gladly hold off till later. Or at the very least move to a new location.

Leo Paik wrote:BethHux & ChefMattThaner, note in my post that I did not make any mention of "second hand high". Instead, I was noting the issue of testing positive on drug screens, which can detect cross-reacting substances, even if "denatured". Further, to say that most of the THC is absorbed when inhaled only addresses the percent that is inhaled, which is almost never 100% in my observations. Finally, there are times at sport-dominant crags where folks are belaying someone working a route and unable to move much to avoid the uninhaled second hand smoke that is a specific concern.

Ridiculous... Or perhaps I am just lucky I don't live in Colorado where apparently the crags are so busy if you exhale a puff of smoke your blowing it directly in a strangers face, after which they will fail a drug test for there important corporate job because of my ignorant actions.

taylor januskiewiecz wrote: Ridiculous... Or perhaps I am just lucky I don't live in Colorado where apparently the crags are so busy if you exhale a puff of smoke your blowing it directly in a strangers face, after which they will fail a drug test for there important corporate job because of my ignorant actions.

pfft I almost shot coffee through my nose when I read this.

ChefMattThaner, I'm not understanding what you are referring to as wrong. The bulk of it comes from the same website you cited.

Also, if your girlfriend or you cited a banana allergy or indicated nauseousness at bananas, I would do my best to remove & seal any banana I had at a crag. Typically, I eat my bananas in the morning prior to leaving home. Hating kids at the crags...whoa...you might be going a bit far on that issue, no?

Unfortunately, climbers have not always been known to be particularly respectful of other climbers at the crags...including on stopping smoking marijuana (or cigarettes).

J1, I've listened to this physician previously. He's not always right. He's expressing his informed opinion. I'll respect it as his opinion based upon a study or two he is citing. Not all physicians agree on any given issue.

Interestingly, Colorado's House passed a 5ng/ml marijuana blood level for intoxication while driving. Albeit, it is not yet law...it's also not clear what the level of second hand marijuana inhalation translates for blood levels for being pulled over and charged with DUI, an expensive and painful situation.

Additionally, typically THC and its detectable metabolites do linger for a considerable time, up to 6 weeks, in humans due to its lipophilic properties.

Finally, remember that marijuana is still illegal on a federal level in all of the US.

"There are many things at the crag that bother many people. I hate small children at the crag more than anything. Yet I allow these things to go on all the time. If you personally have a problem with someone smoking around you then ask them to stop. Myself and everyone I know would gladly hold off till later. Or at the very least move to a new location."

Word.... a simple solution to a simple problem. Just talk to each other...

And I really hate small children at the crags the most.... cause it will be "My fault" if some rock goes dancing down the hill and smacks junior....

One time I saw a toddler, who was riding an unleashed dog, bong-in-hand, blasting a stereo and top-roping through the anchors.

Thought it was pretty cool.

Wish I could be that cool.

Leo Paik wrote:ChefMattThaner, I'm not understanding what you are referring to as wrong. The bulk of it comes from the same website you cited. Also, if your girlfriend or you cited a banana allergy or indicated nauseousness at bananas, I would do my best to remove & seal any banana I had at a crag. Typically, I eat my bananas in the morning prior to leaving home. Hating kids at the crags...whoa...you might be going a bit far on that issue, no? Unfortunately, climbers have not always been known to be particularly respectful of other climbers at the crags...including on stopping smoking marijuana (or cigarettes). J1, I've listened to this physician previously. He's not always right. He's expressing his informed opinion. I'll respect it as his opinion based upon a study or two he is citing. Not all physicians agree on any given issue. Interestingly, Colorado's House passed a 5ng/ml marijuana blood level for intoxication while driving. Albeit, it is not yet law...it's also not clear what the level of second hand marijuana inhalation translates for blood levels for being pulled over and charged with DUI, an expensive and painful situation. Additionally, typically THC and its detectable metabolites do linger for a considerable time, up to 6 weeks, in humans due to its lipophilic properties. Finally, remember that marijuana is still illegal on a federal level in all of the US.

Leo, if you try to do some of your own research on the topic of drug tests, you will find that these tests, as CheffMattThaner and others have expressed, are specifically designed to not flag you for the levels found in second hand inhalation.
Regarding the banana issue, I have a latex food allergy, with my strongest allergy being to bananas. The point ChefMattThaner was making is do I go to every single person consuming a banana and ask them to stop because the wafts of banana smell are making me nauseous? No, I put my big girl panties on and deal with it. If they throw the banana peel towards me, I might as them to dispose of it elsewhere, but generally that has not been an issue.
Regarding hating children at the crag, I find them obnoxious and dangerous. I have had the less than pleasurable experience of watching some pre-teens who were clearly talented climbers but frankly dangerous belayers, as one repeated harassed and distracted the other who was belaying their father. My experience with kids at the crag has consistently been that they are loud, distracting, poorly supervised and generally detract from everyone's experience. Obviously there are exceptions to that, but I don't think hating kids at the crag is extreme.
Finally, if you ask someone to not smoke near you and you are polite, reasonable, and are not condescending or preachy about it, I am sorry that other smoking climbers have been rude. In my experience, which is obviously limited to the states I climb in, smokers actually try to be respectful and not overly intrusive with their activities. And just ask nicely. Like Guy Keesee says, just talk to each other!

todd w wrote:One time I saw a toddler, who was riding an unleashed dog, bong-in-hand, blasting a stereo and top-roping through the anchors. Thought it was pretty cool. Wish I could be that cool.

LMAO !! Thought of this one after reading that...

youtube.com/watch?v=HvjGHNw…

Leo Paik wrote: Typically, I eat my bananas in the morning prior to leaving home.

Highly relevant.

On another note, you are quite the sensitive little flower.

Pffts. There went my coffee through the nose.

Can't believe people get so upset about smoking at crags. As a non-drug user my very simple answer to other people smoking is:
1-ignore
2-talk to person
3-if all else fails, go climb somewhere else

It's super easy and at some point as an adult you just have to relax

I was at Trollville in NH last year and a couple of groups were very polite and respectful about their drinking and smoking. A friend and I came up to meet another friend. We must have been there for almost an hour when guys asked if it was OK to smoke and drink. I replied go for it, I don't care. They were shocked when I said no thank you. I asked why be shocked? They told me they've never ran across a straight edge that was cool with their activities. I replied "That's sad". Those guys shared their ropes and we all had fun that afternoon. I think that's most important. A little tolerance so everyone has a good time!

Second hand smoke failing a drug test? You sound like my guys when they fail a drug test! I was even told by one former employee that the THC absorbed through his skin from touching marijuana so that's why he failed the test. I was told by a doctor that you get high you fail. You don't get high you pass.

OK, let's get real for a second. The actual level of encroachment has been wildly overstated.

If someone is puffing at the crag, it is not a constant stream of smoke engulfing others. In almost every situation that I smell it at the crag, it is a quick waft or two, and then that's that.

No matter how annoying, if the encroachment is 8 freaking seconds long, just suck it up. That's what everybody does, everywhere, every day. If it truly rises to the level of an encroachment - like a session right in your face, which could be rightfully obnoxious - just strike up a conversation and that will be the end of it.