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Weed at the crag

Pete Spri · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 347
Cor wrote:20kN, you are stuck in your box.. It is true what Mike Lane said, fact. What about the Nations Capital, DC has med. use. Have you been hearing of any raids?? The future is now people, and things are changing. The wheel is still in spin. More states are looking at legalization. Jus sayin.. (It's a hot topic here in Colorado)
They've also raided some in Washington state.

Personally, I hope they use CO and WA as test cases. My concern is not climbing; climbing is always a judgement call, and climbing with someone stoned or drunk is no different.

I'm more concerned with officers and how they will deal with drunk AND stoned drivers coming out of a bar that serves both. Talk about some bad accidents coming down the pipe; I already see enough of this stuff at the hospitals that I work at, don't want to see any more, frankly.
Bawdy B · · Denver, CO · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 95
Spri wrote: They've also raided some in Washington state. Personally, I hope they use CO and WA as test cases. My concern is not climbing; climbing is always a judgement call, and climbing with someone stoned or drunk is no different. I'm more concerned with officers and how they will deal with drunk AND stoned drivers coming out of a bar that serves both. Talk about some bad accidents coming down the pipe; I already see enough of this stuff at the hospitals that I work at, don't want to see any more, frankly.
I think we are long way away from coming up with a real test to establish impairment for weed consumption. Given the residual nature of marijuana, it is difficult to establish chemically whether someone is a.) high and b.) impaired. Marijuana effects everyone differently (just as alcohol does) but chronic users do have a much higher tolerance and have a very different threshold for impairment.
Also, if you currently get arrested for driving under the influence of marijuana, and give you a blood test, take it to court. Having spent a fair amount of time with a public defender, the current tests available to the police are extraordinarily unreliable and have a long established court history of such. Any lawyer worth his salt will be able to get the case dismissed.

On the actual topic of this post, weed at the crag, I can only speak for Colorado, but I have no issue with and I have never climbed near or with someone who seemed to have an issue with it. I frequently see people with their pipes and stashes out. I think marijuana consumers do have some responsibility in Colorado to help normalize consumption. Don't try to hide it, recreational (and medical) is legal here, don't act like you are doing something wrong. None of the guys hauling cases of beer up to the crag have any shame, neither should you.
Leo Paik · · Westminster, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 22,800

One thing to consider on smoking marijuana in public environments is the potential infringement upon those around you. For some folks, their professions, jobs, or employers may have strict regulations for job retainment that can cause loss of employment and income for such substances found upon testing. For some others, their particular situation may be jeopardized due drug screening for other reasons. So consider others' situations when burning marijuana at the crags.

Bawdy B · · Denver, CO · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 95

Leo, I totally understand your position here, but second hand smoke from marijuana will not cause you to test positive on a drug screening. Contact highs are an extraordinarily uncommon experience and for the most part are an urban myth. Short of being hot boxed in an airtight car for hours, you aren't going to test positive. Once the smoke has been exhaled, it is basically devoid of THC. People who report having a contact high are basically experiencing the placebo effect. Much like hanging out in a room full of drunk people, but you are sober, you'll start acting as though you are drunk if you stay their long enough. Even if you do manage to consume some THC from being around second hand marijuana smoke (very unlikely when in an outdoor situation, like rock climbing), it is significantly lower than what employment drug tests are looking for.

Pete Spri · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 347
BethHux wrote: I think we are long way away from coming up with a real test to establish impairment for weed consumption. Given the residual nature of marijuana, it is difficult to establish chemically whether someone is a.) high and b.) impaired. Marijuana effects everyone differently (just as alcohol does) but chronic users do have a much higher tolerance and have a very different threshold for impairment. Also, if you currently get arrested for driving under the influence of marijuana, and give you a blood test, take it to court. Having spent a fair amount of time with a public defender, the current tests available to the police are extraordinarily unreliable and have a long established court history of such. Any lawyer worth his salt will be able to get the case dismissed. On the actual topic of this post, weed at the crag, I can only speak for Colorado, but I have no issue with and I have never climbed near or with someone who seemed to have an issue with it. I frequently see people with their pipes and stashes out. I think marijuana consumers do have some responsibility in Colorado to help normalize consumption. Don't try to hide it, recreational (and medical) is legal here, don't act like you are doing something wrong. None of the guys hauling cases of beer up to the crag have any shame, neither should you.
While tests may not be up to par, the fact remains that marijuana affects people's ability to drive. Sure, some people may have higher tolerances, just as alcohol.

My fear remains that once it goes mainstream and begins being sold in bars alongside alcohol, there will be 2 drugs affecting driving, compounding the issue of impaired driving from what it already is.

I think this is more than a valid concern. But as I said, we shall see with these test case states.
Bawdy B · · Denver, CO · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 95

Spri, I absolutely agree, combining marijuana with alcohol, particularly in inexperienced users is a dangerous combination. Driving high can be dangerous as is driving drunk. I'm just in favor of setting reasonable standards for impairment. A regular user may test positive for marijuana with our current tests even if they are not currently intoxicated. I'm all for safe responsible use.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
BethHux wrote: I think we are long way away from coming up with a real test to establish impairment for weed consumption. Given the residual nature of marijuana, it is difficult to establish chemically whether someone is a.) high and b.) impaired. Marijuana effects everyone differently (just as alcohol does) but chronic users do have a much higher tolerance and have a very different threshold for impairment. Also, if you currently get arrested for driving under the influence of marijuana, and give you a blood test, take it to court. Having spent a fair amount of time with a public defender, the current tests available to the police are extraordinarily unreliable and have a long established court history of such. Any lawyer worth his salt will be able to get the case dismissed. On the actual topic of this post, weed at the crag, I can only speak for Colorado, but I have no issue with and I have never climbed near or with someone who seemed to have an issue with it. I frequently see people with their pipes and stashes out. I think marijuana consumers do have some responsibility in Colorado to help normalize consumption. Don't try to hide it, recreational (and medical) is legal here, don't act like you are doing something olwrong. None of the guys hauling cases of beer up to the crag have any shame, neither should you.
That's a really interesting thought.. So true that people will drink around kids and act a fool but marijuana is frowned upon around anyone. I find the hypocritic will tell the pot smokers to go off somewhere while they've got a beer in their hand. The drinkers are always trouble while pot smokers are usually mellow.
England · · Colorado Springs · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 270

I smoked the weed for more than a decade, I'm done with that. Now I have a problem with alcohol... I would have to stay away from all of that, and live a clean life. Alcohol has consumed way to many of my years in this life. Take it or leave it!!!!!!

ChefMattThaner · · Lakewood, co · Joined May 2013 · Points: 246
Leo Paik wrote:One thing to consider on smoking marijuana in public environments is the potential infringement upon those around you. For some folks, their professions, jobs, or employers may have strict regulations for job retainment that can cause loss of employment and income for such substances found upon testing. For some others, their particular situation may be jeopardized due drug screening for other reasons. So consider others' situations when burning marijuana at the crags.
Leo while this is an extremely valid concern for those with professions relying on passing drug screening, this is something that is a serious misnomer and needs to be corrected.

Not only does the majority percentage of THC (the chemical that is tested for in drug tests) get absorbed by the user on the first inhale. But THC also becomes denatured almost immediately when it becomes exposed to the oxygen in our atmosphere(when exhaled). Like BethHux mentioned the whole second hand high is truly not possible in the wide expanse of nature that is crags we are climbing on. There have been numerous tests all concluding that second hand high in an area much larger than a phone booth is next to impossible.

In closing, if all these people worried about failing drug tests because of faint wofts of smoke blowing your way, then how come none of you have ever been popped on a drug test??? I mean if you climb with any regularity outdoors, at least in most places I have been, you are most assuredly to come across a rogue pot smoking group from time to time.
Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280

cold and damp outside,,,,lousy day at the crag,,,only thing that would make it tolerable and ease the pain would be a nice weed break for 20 min. Then you might get some warmth to give your project a 'go, or just sit back and look at the route for another hour discussing if the crimps are gonna work instead of the undercling. Smoke a bit more, decisions, decisions.....

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

Cmon dude.. I don't wanna execute the problem. That guys really cool man. Isn't he the one who plays the guiter on Thursday nights?

Clifton Santiago · · Denver, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 0
Jake Jones wrote:There are two things that most people could improve upon to make this a non-issue. 1) Realize that not everyone has the same perspective as you and try to be as courteous as possible. 2) Worry less about what other people are doing and more about your own party and situation. The answers to most problems are simpler than we like to think. The problem is the execution of the solution, not the solution itself.
Dr. Grinspoon?
TheBirdman Friedman · · Eldorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 65

Weed at the crags, dogs at the crag, booze at the crag, foul language at the crag, whatever at the crag; it's all the same.

Be respectful of those around you and understand that other people do not share your view. Nobody is going to mind if you take a quick puff and don't make a scene of it. On the other hand, hauling a bong, screaming about how high you are, and blowing smoke in people's faces is bound to piss people off. Nobody ever has a problem with a well behaved, leashed crag dog, it's the one that cause problems. Nobody has a problem with someone respectfully enjoying an adult beverage, but if you bring your beer funnel or are ripping shots and calling attention to yourself, it's going to piss someone off. I feel like it's a fundamental tenet of being a decent person. If there are small children at the crag, duck around the corner to smoke weed. If someone tells you it's bothering them, just take it a little farther away. If someone tries to lecture you about how dangerous your behavior is simply tell them that is an issue for you and your partner.

As for climbing with someone who is stoned, it's totally an individual assessment. For those of you who have never smoked weed and claim you would never climb with someone who was stoned, I'd offer this. Would you climb with someone who was drinking a beer? Would you climb with someone who just learned to belay? It's all about the individual and frankly, I'll take the guy who has been belaying stoned for years over the newbie who just learned to use a gri-gri.

I think these discussions are funny. Considering climbers are generally considered social outcasts and represent counter culture, it goes without saying that they are generally tolerant of any type of behavior as long it doesn't affect them. Just exercise a little bit of judgment, some common sense, and be respectful of others and you won't have a problem. It really doesn't seem that hard.

StonEmber · · Raleigh, NC · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 35

If you bring shwag to the crag, WE HAVE REAL PROBLEMS....we have to set an example for our children by bringing our best!!!

Wear the beanie and crush those lines, no matter what your preference is. Funny how those that smoke don't bitch about those that don't smoke......just don't drop your partner and pay attention....

Tom-onator · · trollfreesociety · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 790
TheBirdman wrote:Weed at the crags, dogs at the crag, booze at the crag, foul language at the crag, whatever at the crag; it's all the same. Be respectful of those around you and understand that other people do not share your view. Nobody is going to mind if you take a quick puff and don't make a scene of it. On the other hand, hauling a bong, screaming about how high you are, and blowing smoke in people's faces is bound to piss people off. Nobody ever has a problem with a well behaved, leashed crag dog, it's the one that cause problems. Nobody has a problem with someone respectfully enjoying an adult beverage, but if you bring your beer funnel or are ripping shots and calling attention to yourself, it's going to piss someone off. I feel like it's a fundamental tenet of being a decent person. If there are small children at the crag, duck around the corner to smoke weed. If someone tells you it's bothering them, just take it a little farther away. If someone tries to lecture you about how dangerous your behavior is simply tell them that is an issue for you and your partner. As for climbing with someone who is stoned, it's totally an individual assessment. For those of you who have never smoked weed and claim you would never climb with someone who was stoned, I'd offer this. Would you climb with someone who was drinking a beer? Would you climb with someone who just learned to belay? It's all about the individual and frankly, I'll take the guy who has been belaying stoned for years over the newbie who just learned to use a gri-gri. I think these discussions are funny. Considering climbers are generally considered social outcasts and represent counter culture, it goes without saying that they are generally tolerant of any type of behavior as long it doesn't affect them. Just exercise a little bit of judgment, some common sense, and be respectful of others and you won't have a problem. It really doesn't seem that hard.
What say you Judges?

10, 9.8, 9.8, 10, 10, 9.9, 10, 10, 9.8, 10, 10, 9.8

Fuckin nailed it!!
saguaro sandy · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 140

Birdman, very mature response. Personally I would choose a noob on Gri gri over a stoner or a be layer with beer. When I encountered weed and cigarette smokers at the crags in Colorado I told them that it bothered me to smell their smoke while I am trying to focus on sending my route. I got giggles in responce...and douce bag behavior. I am foul mouthed when I am working a hard move sometimes but I do watch it if I see kids at the crag.

TheBirdman Friedman · · Eldorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 65
vivica jones wrote:Birdman, very mature response. Personally I would choose a noob on Gri gri over a stoner or a be layer with beer. When I encountered weed and cigarette smokers at the crags in Colorado I told them that it bothered me to smell their smoke while I am trying to focus on sending my route. I got giggles in responce...and douce bag behavior. I am foul mouthed when I am working a hard move sometimes but I do watch it if I see kids at the crag.
Totally anecdotal here but in my experience, newbies with a Gri-Gri are 1000x more dangerous than a experienced belayer using an intoxicant that they frequently use. If it's there first time smoking weed, it might be different but generally speaking nothing is more dangerous than a newbie belayer.

In response to the douchey behavior when you asked them to be respectful, all I can say is don't paint everyone who smokes with a broad brush. There are disrespectful sober people too. I'd contend you don't notice the respectful smokers because they don't make a scene of it.
The Blueprint Part Dank · · FEMA Region VIII · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460

Birdman is spot on. However, I've been climbing for quite some time now, quite extensively in 10 different states in various regions of the country, and I honestly can't say that I've ever seen the use of marijuana or alcohol at the crag taken to the more egregious extents that you list. I've never seen a bong (for beer or weed) at a crag, and even when parties are annoying in other ways (spraying beta, cursing loudly, blaring music), when those same people break out a pipe or a beer, it's usually done with no more inconvenience to me than someone eating a sandwich next to me and my partner.

I think the issue of smelling smoke is an unfair one to level towards a marijuana user at the crag. It's outdoors, there's wind, the smell of even to most pungent weed just doesn't stay around that long.

I think this Vivica Jones person is simply trolling this thread. She'd rather have a noob on a gri gri give her a catch than have an experienced climber who's a little high give her the belay? Huh, that just seems to be an opinion that is based more on personal bias than reality. But hey, that's her choice. I just personally

Leo Paik · · Westminster, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 22,800

BethHux & ChefMattThaner, note in my post that I did not make any mention of "second hand high". Instead, I was noting the issue of testing positive on drug screens, which can detect cross-reacting substances, even if "denatured". Further, to say that most of the THC is absorbed when inhaled only addresses the percent that is inhaled, which is almost never 100% in my observations. Finally, there are times at sport-dominant crags where folks are belaying someone working a route and unable to move much to avoid the uninhaled second hand smoke that is a specific concern.

ChefMattThaner · · Lakewood, co · Joined May 2013 · Points: 246
Leo Paik wrote:BethHux & ChefMattThaner, note in my post that I did not make any mention of "second hand high". Instead, I was noting the issue of testing positive on drug screens, which can detect cross-reacting substances, even if "denatured". Further, to say that most of the THC is absorbed when inhaled only addresses the percent that is inhaled, which is almost never 100% in my observations. Finally, there are times at sport-dominant crags where folks are belaying someone working a route and unable to move much to avoid the uninhaled second hand smoke that is a specific concern.
Ok so is there a single documented incident of someone failing a drug test because of second hand smoke exposure???

Myth: Exposure to second hand marijuana (THC) smoke can yield a positive test result.

Truth:

Passive exposure to a drug can make it appear in your urine, but actual consumption of the drug makes it appear at a much higher concentration. To avoid the argument that a positive result is due to passive contact, cut-off levels have been established. These cut-off levels are set to make it virtually impossible for a specimen to screen positive from passive contact. In the case of THC, it has been shown that subjects can be exposed to extreme, uncomfortable levels of second-hand smoke for long periods of time without registering a positive urine test at the 50 ng/ml screening cutoff level.

For more information and references on this subject, please visit: href=” norchemlab.com/passive-inha…”>this linkTOP
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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