Where to find 1/4" bolts?
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I'm looking to buy a handful of 1/4" expansion bolts, for drilling on alpine granite. These look good: |
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Fish Products.......Russ Walling. He has 1/4" bolts and bolting materials. |
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Scott Bennett wrote:I'm looking to buy a handful of 1/4" expansion bolts, for drilling on alpine granite. These look good: fastenmsc.com/p-99715-power… But they're only sold in boxes of 100. Does anyone know of a place that sells 1/4" bolts individually? I'm in Boulder, so I'll try McGuckins, of course. Or maybe someone here has a few lying around that they wanna sell? Also, looking for hangers for said bolts, let me know if you have any info. Thanks ScottShit, $90 for 100 1/4" Power-Bolts?! I have bought 75 1/2" x 4" Power-Bolts on eBay for $40. Anyway, search eBay. There are tons of people selling bolts on there and you are likely to find a far better deal on eBay than you will from Fixe or elsewhere. |
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why not just go with 1/8 inchers? |
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As JLP points out, those bolts aren't really 1/4" as the bolt in the middle which you tighten is probably 3/16" or even 1/8". No reason not to drill 3/8" even in alpine situations. And, please use stainless steel. |
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Quite a learning curve to 1/4" drilling. |
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Bruce Hildenbrand wrote:As JLP points out, those bolts aren't really 1/4" as the bolt in the middle which you tighten is probably 3/16" or even 1/8". No reason not to drill 3/8" even in alpine situations. And, please use stainless steel. Doing first ascents is cool, but it is important to be responsible about it as well.The machine bolt in the 1/4" Power-Bolt is #10 diameter. However, Powers uses grade eight alloy steel for their machine bolt on the hex head Power-Bolts, which means a 1/4" Power-Bolt is stronger than a 5/16" wedge bolt. The 1/4" Power-Bolt has a max strength of 15.2kN in shear, which is nearly as strong as some [crappier] 3/8" bolts. However, interestingly enough Powers gives the same load data for both the stainless steel and carbon steel versions of the 1/4" Power-Bolt, which sounds like BS to me. Grade eight is at least 150,000 PSI strength, where 304 SS is typically 65,000 - 100,000 PSI (for A2-70). Powers even claims the stainless steel they use for their Power-Bolts is manufactured "with a minimum strength of 65,000 PSI," which is not even remotely as strong as alloy steel. |
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I guess the real question is what is the intended purpose of the bolts? If they are intended for belay anchors or free climbing protection please think about the route over time and those who will follow your ascent for years to come. To me that means 3/8" and stainless if possible. |
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20 kN wrote: The machine bolt in the 1/4" Power-Bolt is #10 diameterA #10 bolt is .190". 3/16" is .188". Basically the same size. |
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Mtn Tools sells them individually. |
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I hope they are for hanging pictures or bolting a toilet down onto a basement floor. Looking at your profile you clearly are not a noob. There would be negligible difference in hand drilling a 3/8" hole instead, and then this guy won't have to follow you and replace them. |
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just drill a 1/4" hole and pound two 16 penny nails into it then hitch it bro |
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Compromise? Use 5/16" 5-piece Powers bolts. Signif faster to hand drill than 3/8 and they're real bolts. True, they'll need to be replaced with stainless fatties at some point, but they are appropriate for alpine FAs IMO. |
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Go with 3/8th.. They are the new quarter-incher. 2-1/2 inch hole in less than 20 min. You're strong enough to hang out the few more minutes to drill it, especially since you say you only need a handful of them. If these are belay bolts, consider a couple of RBs? They don't need to be that deep. |
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Basically every book I read that covers fixed gear claims that any and all 1/4" bolts should not be trusted. Have things changed, are modern 1/4" bolts trustworthy? |
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Modern 1/4" buttonheads are exactly the same as old 1/4" were when they were new (but modern hangers are better). As far as 1/4", no one uses anything except buttonheads, everything else is sketchy (relatively speaking). They are trustworthy to a certain degree - after all they were the mainstay of climbing for decades. |
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Thanks for the input, everyone. |
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I don't think they even make that size, and I'm not sure why some bolts are described as carbon steel, which means they are 'naked' (un treated or plated) steel. Not sure why you are adamant about ignoring all the requests to go with 3/8"s, but WTH. I have an idiot stepson who deliberately goes with the opposite advice I give him so I'm used to it. |
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curious, do you want/care if anyone repeats the route? If not soon, then in the next 10-20 years? |
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I've been working a ground up ascent in the southern AZ backcountry and using 3/8" bolts. It really isn't that big a problem. If you have a stance and feel ok then bang away. It will be a better route for it. |
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As to why we're looking to drill smaller diameter bolts: |