Comfortizing?

So the Cayman Brac discussion devolved, but left me wondering....

IF comfortizing is typical at the area you're developing, how do you go about it?

When do you decide to comfortize, when do you decide to leave it alone?

What tools do you use? Which rock types?

How do you make sure you don't screw up and over do it?

I don't know where I fall on the issue. I've never used more than a wire brush on holds and a small crow bar to pry off loose rock. And I've left many painful holds that have made it so I never want to climb the route again.

If you even think about comfortizing a hold, think about Sgt. Barnes!

Shut up!
Shut up and take the pain!
Take the pain!! (lol)
youtube.com/watch?v=-5NBja6…

I've used a screwdriver (circular motion in a pocket), hammer (tip or anvil), wrench or drill bit.

Some limestone is like shards of glass. Especially pockets.

I've always found these to be great at "comfortizing" holds to my liking

5.samadhi, why would you want to go and ruin a good woodworking chisel? You need a stone or masonry chisel for rock work.

brrrraaapppp

It´s just a matter of judgement, some are better than others. The usual standard is roughly think of what the route would be like in a few years and after hundreds of ascents and put it in that state. The limitation is normally boredom especially on easy routes with thousands of potential holds so I just do the ones I want to use.
A good rummage with a nut key is considered normal.

Jim Titt wrote:It´s just a matter of judgement, some are better than others. The usual standard is roughly think of what the route would be like in a few years and after hundreds of ascents and put it in that state. The limitation is normally boredom especially on easy routes with thousands of potential holds so I just do the ones I want to use. A good rummage with a nut key is considered normal.

The route could be anything we wanted to be in a few hundred ascents if we all carry chisels

5.samadhi wrote: The route could be anything we wanted to be in a few hundred ascents if we all carry chisels

Sure, but normal practice is only the FA does the comfortising.

Jim Titt wrote: Sure, but normal practice is only the FA does the comfortising.

maybe in germany :/

Locker wrote:Valid point.

Haha well played with that picture.

rogerk wrote: And I've left many painful holds that have made it so I never want to climb the route again.

What was your motivation to put up the route then?

Here we go, pages of opinions from people who don't know what they are talking about and are stuck on theoretical ethics not balanced by any practical experience.

It is a gray area and the results depend on the talents and aesthetics of the first ascensionist. Some people are hacks or lazy, others will do a good job when needed while respecting the rock and the other users to come.

CJC wrote: likes FA's, doesn't like to chisel? isn't this the norm? damn I hope so...

Do you really think it's admirable to put up routes that are so unpleasant even the route developer doesn't want to repeat them?

Seems kind of selfish to me, like the folks who leave death blocks on their new routes, or place substandard bolts.

I don't know rogerk's situation, maybe it's reasonable behavior somewhere. But not at a limestone sort crag.

Have you ever climbed on fresh limestone? Comfortizing spines is analogous to brushing off lichen in New England. Or wire brushing off a layer of loose grit.

Though I totally hear M Sprague's point, I'm going to go ahead and offer my non-route-developer opinion anyway.

I've been on about 500 routes here in the Frankenjura, which is all limestone. I've of course been climbing in other areas, but have done most of my climbing here. The rock varies in quality, density, and formation (and it's also different from the limestone in Cayman Brac). There are some "structure" crags where the routes follow crimps and slopers, and others where there are only pockets. I can say from experience that there are some miserable pockets out there that make some entire routes a nightmare to have to redpoint. Therefore, there are many routes that my wife and I, if we don't get the onsight, just strike the route through in the guidebook and don't get back on it. With more than 10,000 routes within an hour's drive of home, I can do this. But what if the crag takes an hour to walk to?

My point in going climbing is to have fun, and I don't want to ruin my whole day (or rather multiple days) of climbing because I tore my finger wide open on a shitty hold. And trust me, the impact that route developers have on a route which they've customized isn't even close to as big of an impact that thousands of climbers do on that same route over 20 years. If you don't know what I'm talking about, come visit and I'd be happy to show you.

From my perspective though, thank you to all the route developers who not only put up new routes for me to enjoy and not have to lug out all that heavy shit, but also go through the trouble of making the routes a pleasurable experience for us.

Sometimes a few sharp edges get missed...

Sharp limestone

I tapped the below block with my foot...it rotated...so I "comfortized" it...ha ha. Was the size of a small car.

Loose limestone block

rogerk wrote: When do you decide to comfortize, when do you decide to leave it alone?

I comfortize when the hold is so sharp that it'll cut you or is too painful to hold onto. The myth is that this makes it "easier". Well, modern gym-holds are ALL comfortable (I remember when they weren't.) but that doesn't make them easier to hold onto. Often just the opposite.

rogerk wrote:What tools do you use? Which rock types? How do you make sure you don't screw up and over do it?

First of all, anyone who mentions chisels is an ignorant wanker. I don't know any developer who carries a chisel.

The tool I use most is a claw hammer. Just running it back-and-forth over an edge will snap off/blunt those paper-thin razors. Tapping will break off/blunt sharp spikes (about the size of the sharp end of a pencil).

(If these "sharps" are left alone, they will break off when someone tries to climb the route resulting in serious cuts/lacerations/punctures of that person's fingers/hands.)

I also have a big screwdriver with a square shaft. This allows me to do the same thing in small pockets using the corners on the shaft, and reach any spikes inside with the tip.

I carry wire brushes, a nylon scrub brush and a blow-tube to blow out debris from the pockets.

The tool I wish I had is a wire-mesh glove. Then I could just run my hand over the holds and dull all those sharp edges. But the ones I've looked at are either too fragile or too clumsy, and very expensive.

rogerk wrote:And I've left many painful holds that have made it so I never want to climb the route again.

I bet the word is out and no one else climbs it either! It's worthless as is, so go back and fix it, and deliver a worthy route to the climbing community. Or you could just have WDW4 climb it a hundred times.

Shawn Heath wrote: From my perspective though, thank you to all the route developers who not only put up new routes for me to enjoy and not have to lug out all that heavy shit, but also go through the trouble of making the routes a pleasurable experience for us.

You're welcome. And thank you for your post.

John Byrnes wrote: I comfortize when the hold is so sharp that it'll cut you or is too painful to hold onto. The myth is that this makes it "easier". Well, modern gym-holds are ALL comfortable (I remember when they weren't.) but that doesn't make them easier to hold onto. Often just the opposite. First of all, anyone who mentions chisels is an ignorant wanker. I don't know any developer who carries a chisel. The tool I use most is a claw hammer. Just running it back-and-forth over an edge will snap off/blunt those paper-thin razors. Tapping will break off/blunt sharp spikes (about the size of the sharp end of a pencil). (If these "sharps" are left alone, they will break off when someone tries to climb the route resulting in serious cuts/lacerations/punctures of that person's fingers/hands.) I also have a big screwdriver with a square shaft. This allows me to do the same thing in small pockets using the corners on the shaft, and reach any spikes inside with the tip. I carry wire brushes, a nylon scrub brush and a blow-tube to blow out debris from the pockets. The tool I wish I had is a wire-mesh glove. Then I could just run my hand over the holds and dull all those sharp edges. But the ones I've looked at are either too fragile or too clumsy, and very expensive. I bet the word is out and no one else climbs it either! It's worthless as is, so go back and fix it, and deliver a worthy route to the climbing community. Or you could just have WDW4 climb it a hundred times.

Yeah thats COMPLETELY different from a chisel. At least you aren't carrying a hammer to tap it though. Whew.

Oh wait you are...

Screwdriver works really well.

What my hammer used to look like:

Grivel Thor

What my hammer looked like a few years ago (still in use):

Grivel Thor used

I like a light hammer. Mine's gettin' lighter... Sorta just use it not to hammer, but, to rub around to bust the micro spikeys that are like little razor blades. You'll get cut and not even feel it, except, your fingers get slippery when they're sliced open...

I'd like to see a post from someone who regularly climbs Wyoming limestone who is against comfortizing sharp pockets