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Ignorance

M.Hoffman · · Los Alamos , NM · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 155

I would make them replace it. Good scout project.

Altered Ego · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 0

It’s easy to cast judgments, to label people or situations as bad or wrong. This only serves to re-enforce the minds position of rightness and separation from the whole. We are all suffering from the same mental dysfunction as these guys though it may manifest itself in different ways. The destructive actions of a corporation or government finds its roots on the individual level. This is where change needs to occur.

What good will punishment do? None unless it brings awareness about the true reality of our lives, which is that there is only one life. We are witnessing the self destruction of an individualistic society that has lost its connection to the source.

Justin Compton · · Erie, CO · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 785

Now this takes the cake...

http://news.yahoo.com/man-toppled-ancient-rock-suing-disability-183757302--abc-news-topstories.html

Maybe he could get a job pushing rocks over?

Dustin Drake · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 5

These guys should get the death sentence.

Or maybe a hefty fine and 1000 hours of community service.

Not sure which.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520
Justin Compton wrote:Now this takes the cake...
So the guy that toppled the rock tried to get permanent disability from a car accident four years ago. Ha ha ha. I love it.
jnrose5 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 40

I'm curious what the MP community thinks is an appropriate punishment in this situation. Obviously it's a lot of fun to say they should go to jail forever, replace what they damaged, or whatever. But given that they've done irreversible damage in Goblin Valley, how should the legal system punish them?

To me, it seems like a fine, by itself, is too light, and a long-term jail sentence is too much. And I don't think all of them should receive the same punishment. The pusher should get harsher than the filmer and the cheerer, but they should receive some serious punishment as well. I think ultimately I'd favor a very hefty fine ($250K payable over 10 years?) in combination with some sort of long-term mandatory service projects done on public lands. Maybe these guys could leverage their Boy Scouts to help out...

rging · · Salt Lake City, Ut · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 210

The local media is all over this story and hammered the disability angle pretty well. I think the reason so many locals are pissed is one, the obvious douche factor of the video and two, many people went there as kids then took there kids when they had them. It really is a wonderful family place and people don't like douchebags messing with there childhood.

Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883

Our society is interesting. We can run over, behead, crush, cripple and demolish mice, raccoons, deer, elk, bald eagles and so much more without even a conversation. Yet, if someone pushes over a boulder balanced by some mud we get all up in arms. Someone even suggested a $250,000 fine.

I'm all for preserving our natural resources. But come on people. How about some balanced ideals.

Brian Prince · · reno · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 2,727

Yeah, I don't get it. Perspective I think is the word. Of course, it sounds like the guy in the video could use some too. lol at death sentence

Altered Ego · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 0

Reactive is anther good word. Many people live in a constant reactive state, always under attack by someone or something. Lacking a deeper presence, they exist like the surface of the ocean experiencing turbulence whenever the wind blows.

Andrew Gram · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 3,725
Greg D wrote:Our society is interesting. We can run over, behead, crush, cripple and demolish mice, raccoons, deer, elk, bald eagles And so much more without even a conversation. Yet, if someone pushes over a boulder balanced by sone mud we get all up in arms. Someone even suggested a $250,000 fine. I'm all for preserving our natural resources. But come on people. How about some balanced ideas.
If you get caught intentionally killing a bald eagle, you go to jail for a year and pay a 100,000 fine. Poaching penalties for killing deer or elk without a license are not small either. And if you intentionally maim an animal on a video, you'll go to jail for animal cruelty.

If you accidentally knock over a hoodoo and don't post a video gloating about it online, no one would be getting up in arms.

Balance isn't a bad idea, but false equivalence is intellectually dishonest.
Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883

Yes. It amazes me what people think is ok to do accidentally and intentionally.

I like your reference to intellect. Especially comparing a hunk of rock to real living and breathing animals.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
Andrew Gram wrote: If you get caught intentionally killing a bald eagle, you go to jail for a year and pay a 100,000 fine. Poaching penalties for killing deer or elk without a license are not small either. And if you intentionally maim an animal on a video, you'll go to jail for animal cruelty. If you accidentally knock over a hoodoo and don't post a video gloating about it online, no one would be getting up in arms. Balance isn't a bad idea, but false equivalence is intellectually dishonest.
Which is likely only proof of our for-profit prison system's ability to effectively lobby the judges into handing out insane sentences.

The world felony has lost all of its meaning. What was once a term reserved for serious crimes that have a very adverse and measurable impact on society, is now used for everything anything beyond jaywalking. I think a fine of $250,000 is steep. Consider this: the fine for a DUI in my state for a first offender is $1,000. So did this guy cause 250 times more damage to society than a drunk semi-truck driver?
Mark Pilate · · MN · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 25

Wow - Couple of jackmules yukkin' it up on video and we get quite the range of discussion here. From whitecaps on our Karma to wanton squirrel murderers roaming the roads.

Greg D - I agree with Andrew. You're going a bit out on the limb. First - if someone posted a video of themselves deliberately running down animals on the road, you can rest assured there would be an even bigger uproar.

Second - You make the common mistake of equating a perceived societal value (or lack thereof) and assuming that that it applies to a specific subset (MP'ers on this forum). Whenever this is done anywhere in the media for that matter, it is erroneous.

Third - You equate an accidental issue with a deliberately executed one. Big difference.

Seems like a cut and dried case of wanton assclownery caught on video. Are there there bigger issues in the world? of course, but we don't let burglers go just because there is a murderer still on the loose, and there are always waves on the ocean...Ya just call 'em as ya see em.

Proposed Sentence: Several months of community service and park clean-up. Must teach a curriculum of proper resource stewardship and leave no trace priciples to their Boy Scout troops. Case Closed

David B · · Denver, CO · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 205
Mark Pilate wrote:Proposed Sentence: Several months of community service and park clean-up. Must teach a curriculum of proper resource stewardship and leave no trace priciples to their Boy Scout troops. Case Closed
whoa buddy, that is just way too reasonable
doug rouse · · Denver, CO. · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 660

I watched a story on the News this morning, and it turns out the rock toppler has a pending Workers comp case/settlement. He says his back is too jacked up to work...he's experienced loss of quality of life etc etc...With this video out there, I'd say he's going back to work!

rging · · Salt Lake City, Ut · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 210

So the question is, will he need to move to another state to find work now or is Utah the only state that will take him?

Dow Williams · · St. George, Utah; Canmore, AB · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 240
doug rouse wrote:I watched a story on the News this morning, and it turns out the rock toppler has a pending Workers comp case/settlement. He says his back is too jacked up to work...he's experienced loss of quality of life etc etc...With this video out there, I'd say he's going back to work!
You have way too much faith in the system...he will never return to the workforce. I predict his next step is to sue the park for the loose rock.
NPS Ranger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 0

It seems that the BSA has released the scout leaders from any further activities with the Scouts (Article) . I hope we will hear more good news from Emery County, in the way of formal charges.

Glenn Taylor, good luck with all your legal troubles ahead.

Tom-onator · · trollfreesociety · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 790
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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