Cobras vs Vipers?

I'm letting nostalgia go and finally getting a new pair of ice tools. From playing around at Ouray this past festival, I know I like the swing of the Cobra/Viper design from BD over any of the Petzl or Givel tools that I tried. However, I just demo'd them for a few pitches each, so I wasn't able to really intuit the differences between the two. I liked the lightness of the Cobra, but on fresh water ice that could be a detriment? Just postulating here, which is why I need ya'll's experience with the tools. What do you like about one over the other?

Price isn't really a consideration here. I've been saving up for new tools and just want input to help figure out which suit my needs better.

(I'm looking for a tool to use alpine and waterfall ice climb. Any mixed climbing or dry tooling will be done with a different set of tools altogether.)

Cobras. I actually prefer the balance an feel of the older ones, but you can dial in the newer ones as well. no issues for fresh hard water ice. The balance and damping of the carbon fiber is superior vs the tinny feel of the viper.

Both are fine water ice tools, but my opinion is that the cobra wins hands down, especially if you say price is not a factor.

Cobra is the clear winner if you've got the funds, however, the Vipers really are a close runner up. The Cobras are ever so slightly lighter and have a pick angle which is about 2 degrees steeper. There are plenty of folks climbing hard WI6 on Vipers just fine.

In my opinion, the biggest difference of all - the carbon fiber keeps your hands way warmer.

All that said, the Cobra is my favorite pure water ice tool of all time and I've spent plenty of time on a whole wide range of axes.

Cobras

Vipers feel kind of clunky to me. Cobras have a more crisp swing in my opinion.

I love my Vipers, but given a choice I'd climb ice on Cobras. The swing just feels a little better. I'm not sure there's much of a difference on trashy mixed climbs, so for that, I'd just go cheapest.

I find that the carbon fiber of the cobras give less feedback than the twang of the vipers. At first, most people tend to overdrive the cobra's pick because they aren't getting that feedback, making the already hard to remove (in relation to other tools) BD pick even harder to remove. Once you get the swing down however, and realise how little you actually need to swing to gain purchase, the Cobra is an awesome tool.

I had the vipers for a long time and really liked them. I borrowed my buddy's cobras a bunch in the alpine and definitely preferred them in that environment. From there, I moved on to the Grivel Quantum Tech's because I find them to be the best balance between the feedback of metal tools and the lightness and light swing of the carbon fiber.

YMMV.

Is this a troll?!?

j/k ;-)

Cobras!!!!!

Thank you all so much for your feedback, great responses from you one and all. My inclination was already towards the Conras, but you've erased all of my doubts. Conras it is.

I got a sick deal on my vipers so it made it easy, but I've enjoyed them alot. A little more clearance would be cool, but they are a great tool at a chunk cheaper price.

Forgive me, but I have to muddy the waters. If you haven't tried the Cassin tools, you owe it to yourself to do so before sinking the kind of money that Cobras cost. I had a pair of Cobras and sold them once I climbed on a set of X-All Mountains that my wife bought a couple years ago. They had a couple initial shortcomings - I broke two grips, but Cassin changed the material and I haven't an issue since.

Fast forward to last season and we both ended up buying the X-Dreams after taking them for a spin. For steep ice and mixed there is no better tool out there. Best combination of balance, handle geometry and definitely the best pick there is.

Sorry to throw that out there, but I couldn't help myself.

Patrick Carey wrote:Forgive me, but I have to muddy the waters. If you haven't tried the Cassin tools, you owe it to yourself to do so before sinking the kind of money that Cobras cost. I had a pair of Cobras and sold them once I climbed on a set of X-All Mountains that my wife bought a couple years ago. They had a couple initial shortcomings - I broke two grips, but Cassin changed the material and I haven't an issue since. Fast forward to last season and we both ended up buying the X-Dreams after taking them for a spin. For steep ice and mixed there is no better tool out there. Best combination of balance, handle geometry and definitely the best pick there is. Sorry to throw that out there, but I couldn't help myself.

I left that part out, but if I was to get new tools..Cassins would be it.

Patrick Carey wrote:Forgive me, but I have to muddy the waters. If you haven't tried the Cassin tools, you owe it to yourself to do so before sinking the kind of money that Cobras cost. I had a pair of Cobras and sold them once I climbed on a set of X-All Mountains that my wife bought a couple years ago. They had a couple initial shortcomings - I broke two grips, but Cassin changed the material and I haven't an issue since. Fast forward to last season and we both ended up buying the X-Dreams after taking them for a spin. For steep ice and mixed there is no better tool out there. Best combination of balance, handle geometry and definitely the best pick there is. Sorry to throw that out there, but I couldn't help myself.

+1.. Do it.

Cobras to Vipers is like Ferrari to Mustang. I've used cobras two seasons and had both style fusions and quarks. For pure ice, cobras are my favorite.

Ok, why do you splitters have to go and muddy-up a cased closed, done deal? Essentially unanimous consent on Cobras and the OP is satisfied he got his answer....and then you throw out the x-dream curveball.

I for one, think ignorance is bliss. I have no experience with the new Cassins and now with all your profuse recommending, I'm gonna have to go see for myself. Why can't ya'll leave well enough alone?

That said, I still think that for a combined alpine and waterfall rig, he is better off with the Cobra as a more versatile tool....

Mark Pilate wrote:Ok, why do you splitters have to go and muddy-up a cased closed, done deal? Essentially unanimous consent on Cobras and the OP is satisfied he got his answer....and then you throw out the x-dream curveball. I for one, think ignorance is bliss. I have no experience with the new Cassins and now with all your profuse recommending, I'm gonna have to go see for myself. Why can't ya'll leave well enough alone? That said, I still think that for a combined alpine and waterfall rig, he is better off with the Cobra as a more versatile tool....

That's a negative Ghostrider... He's better off with the Dreams. Ice climbing season in Canada is right around the corner. Therefore it's not long before your enlightenment.

Kirby1013 wrote: That's a negative Ghostrider... He's better off with the Dreams. Ice climbing season in Canada is right around the corner. Therefore it's not long before your enlightenment.

The OP is looking for alpine and ice climbing.

While I can vouch for the X-dreams being my favorite ice tool to date.
I have X-dreams, Nomics, and cobras.

The X-dream is a master at WI climbing, but for Alpine climbing the handle it not well designed for hiking and plunging actions. I would suggest the cobras for an more of an all-around tool.

I've swung both forra couple O seasons. Cut to the chase: Buy the Cobras and don't think twice about it.

I could gush on 'n' on 'n' on, reasons this, reasons that.

Just pony up for the Cobras and you'll send like rockets. Match those puppies up with some Petzl Ergos, and I'd say you've got a winner!

Another vote for the Cobra's. the newer version is decent for alpine, the older version was the perfect all around tool. Still use mine all the time. Nomics are my fave for pure WI though.

Jeff J wrote: The OP is looking for alpine and ice climbing. While I can vouch for the X-dreams being my favorite ice tool to date. I have X-dreams, Nomics, and cobras. The X-dream is a master at WI climbing, but for Alpine climbing the handle it not well designed for hiking and plunging actions. I would suggest the cobras for an more of an all-around tool.

I didn't misread the thread. I just think if you're looking for one set of tools for both you would go for the X Dreams. I figure what little you lose in the alpine department is nothing compared to what you gain in the water ice department over the Cobras. I was just saying that I think Mark would agree when he picks up a pair of X Dreams this winter.

Did we have this same conversation last year Jeff? Haha.. getting tried of this Cassin fanboy or what? Haha..

I guess it really depends on which you will be doing more of? If alpine, a less aggressive tool would be better all around. However, if in the alpine and snow climbing as well, an ice axe along with your tools is the best bet, if there is any significant chance of needing to self arrest. Ice tools might get it done of your are lucky, but an axe has a much better chance of saving your life if nec. Still marginal, but better...