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Gunks .
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Oct 16, 2013
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Gunks, NY
· Joined Apr 2007
· Points: 195
I have the old BD 3.5 and 4 and am thinking of replacing them with the lighter C4. I do not use this size cams often and would appreciate any comments on whether the new #4 replaces the old 3.5 and 4.
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Jan Tarculas
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Oct 16, 2013
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Riverside, Ca
· Joined Mar 2010
· Points: 917
If you want to sell me the 3.5 I'll be glad to take it off your hands
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highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion
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Oct 16, 2013
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Colorado
· Joined Oct 2012
· Points: 35
Most of the time the new 4 will replace the old 3.5 and 4. Some of the time, it won't. It has the same basic mid range. It is in the middle of those two though, so if you've got a crack that just barely takes one of the other sizes, you might find yourself overcammed or tipped out. Most cracks outside of Indian Creek have more than enough variation to use the new size. And it is a lot lighter. I only carry the old ones if I know I need to. As a functional piece of pro, the new one is better as long as it's the right size.
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Locker
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Oct 16, 2013
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Yucca Valley, CA
· Joined Oct 2002
· Points: 2,349
"the new one is better as long as it's the right size."
Uh... really?
LOL!
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highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion
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Oct 16, 2013
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Colorado
· Joined Oct 2012
· Points: 35
Locker wrote:"the new one is better as long as it's the right size." Uh... really? LOL! Don't be intentionally dense. It is smoother, lighter, and has a thumb loop. It is a superior piece. It isn't the same size though, so it doesn't always go where the old one did. This isn't stoner logic, as much as you'd like to make it.
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Locker
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Oct 16, 2013
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Yucca Valley, CA
· Joined Oct 2002
· Points: 2,349
It's not better if it doesn't work. Pretty simple.
EDITED: "This isn't stoner logic, as much as you'd like to make it."
LOL! You don't have a clue!
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Locker
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Oct 16, 2013
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Yucca Valley, CA
· Joined Oct 2002
· Points: 2,349
Earth to nicelegs! Earth to nicelegs! Speaking of being "intentionally dense". Who wrote this one? "the new one is better as long as it's the right size.".
Really? The new one is better if it's the right size? Seriously? LMAO! DUH!
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Ryan Nevius
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Oct 16, 2013
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Perchtoldsdorf, AT
· Joined Dec 2010
· Points: 1,832
Let me rephrase for nicelegs: For the portion of the usable range for which the 3.5 and new #4 overlap, the #4 is superior due to its weight, thumb loop, and smooth action. The new #4 is slightly larger than the 3.5 and is smaller than the old #4...but you won't notice this much unless you're climbing desert splitters.
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Locker
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Oct 16, 2013
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Yucca Valley, CA
· Joined Oct 2002
· Points: 2,349
^^^ Written with intelligence! Good work!
LOL!
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pfwein Weinberg
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Oct 16, 2013
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Boulder, CO
· Joined May 2006
· Points: 71
Sounds like Locker's hitting the glue pretty hard today. I'm not a great climber, but I'm not completely hopeless, and I do own and have substantial experience with old 3.5 and 4 Camalots, and a new 4 C4. niceleggs' take is 100% correct. In my role as Captain Obvious, I'll see if I can straighten Locker out, mostly repeating what others have written, but maybe repetition will help. The new #4 is between sizes of the old 3.5 and old 4. The overlap is substantial, so most of the time it is usable where either an old 3.5 or 4 would be, but not always. Aside from the change in size, C4s have some incremental improvements over the previous generation of Camalots, and in that sense a new C4 is better than old 3.5 or 4. More generally, any C4 is a "better" cam than the last generation, but that may be sorta theoretical when comparing different sizes. Here, it's more than theoretical, as the sizes are very similar and substantially overlapping. Edit--Ryan's post is fine, but I don't think nicelegs posts needed any rephrasing for the non-glue impaired.
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Locker
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Oct 16, 2013
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Yucca Valley, CA
· Joined Oct 2002
· Points: 2,349
Now go back and TRY and find where I posted that the new C4 is NOT better than the older version.
nicelegs totally MISSED what I was getting at as it appears did most others. (Speaking of DENSE ;-) ;-)
EDITED: "and I do own and have substantial experience with old 3.5 and 4 Camalots" Not that it matters, but I'll bet I have more. LOL!
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Locker
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Oct 16, 2013
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Yucca Valley, CA
· Joined Oct 2002
· Points: 2,349
Somebody should tell this dude. "Yer GONNA die!!!"
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/wtb-35-bd-camalot/108389104
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rocknice2
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Oct 16, 2013
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Montreal, QC
· Joined Nov 2006
· Points: 3,847
I did a usable cam chart. The new #4 is about an old #3.75 The new #4 is terrible for The Grand Wall @ Squamish Usable Range 5%-60%
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Locker
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Oct 16, 2013
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Yucca Valley, CA
· Joined Oct 2002
· Points: 2,349
"The new #4 is terrible for The Grand Wall @ Squamish" From what so many are saying here, I think the word you are really looking for is BETTER. LOL!
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rocknice2
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Oct 16, 2013
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Montreal, QC
· Joined Nov 2006
· Points: 3,847
No I mean Terrible. No matter how hard you try it will not fit and you kind of want it too at the end of the Sword pitch. Actually having an old#3.5 + new#4 + old#4 = good if doing an tight offwidth
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Locker
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Oct 16, 2013
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Yucca Valley, CA
· Joined Oct 2002
· Points: 2,349
But, but, but, ALL BD C4's are "BETTER" than the older version 3.5. No matter WHAT the situation. ;-)
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rocknice2
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Oct 16, 2013
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Montreal, QC
· Joined Nov 2006
· Points: 3,847
Well if I was to go on a route that had a short offwidth I would likely take a new 4. Unless it specifically required a 3.5. That said I'll bitch slap you with a #6 if you try to take it from me. ;-)
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Locker
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Oct 16, 2013
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Yucca Valley, CA
· Joined Oct 2002
· Points: 2,349
I'd prefer get hit with the newer version since it's lighter. In this case "Lighter" = BETTER! ;-)
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rocknice2
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Oct 16, 2013
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Montreal, QC
· Joined Nov 2006
· Points: 3,847
LOL Yes lighter and way more stable in the crack because it's wider.
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Locker
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Oct 16, 2013
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Yucca Valley, CA
· Joined Oct 2002
· Points: 2,349
"Am I the only one getting laid on this site again?"
Well there goes 30 seconds of your life. ;-)
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Locker
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Oct 16, 2013
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Yucca Valley, CA
· Joined Oct 2002
· Points: 2,349
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